Talk:Leopard

Did you know nomination

{{Did you know nominations/Leopard}}

Leopard in Israel

A new editor to this page repeatedly added that the leopard may still exits in Israel referencing newspaper articles. This addition was placed into the section on taxonomy, where this statement is irrelevant. Re its presence in that country, see the respective IUCN Red List of 2019, where is clearly stated: In 2006, Leopard populations were estimated at eight individuals in Israel's Judean Desert .., however, they have not been confirmed since. If any leopard has been recorded later than 2018 in that country, then this should be properly referenced using a scientific source, but NOT a newspaper article that contains merely speculations. – BhagyaMani (talk) 18:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi user:BhagyaMani, I've addressed all your comments and you reverted my changes twice and did an additional change that reverted the reference to Israel. AGF, you could have alerted the text to match your decision on how to represent the "distribution" of Arabian leopards in Israel. IUCN listed it as "Possibly Extinct" in Israel and it is a valid term. How do you suggest to clarify the subspecies status in Israel? Should I add the year of IUCN decision?

The reference to a newspaper article shows a wild leopard in Israel in 2007, I think it is significant, are you rejecting this source? RanR (talk) 19:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

The 2007 sighting is already referenced in the respective page on the Arabian leopard. Again: details on distribution and regional extinction are irrelevant in a section on taxonomy, so are newspaper articles. – BhagyaMani (talk) 19:43, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

1. Distribution - This is a "distribution" column, how can you say that "details on distribution ... are irrelevant"? All other subspecies have details on distribution.

2. Regional extinction - You kept "locally extinct in the Sinai Peninsula and Jordan" so you contradict yourself about "details on ... regional extinction are irrelevant". Furthermore, for the "Amur leopard" there is also detail on regional extinction ("It is native to the Russian Far East and northern China, but is locally extinct in the Korean peninsula")

I've also seen your edit in List_of_mammals_of_Israel [1], so I don't understand if you are rejecting that Arabian Leopards were present in Israel RanR (talk) 21:01, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

user:BhagyaMani I agree with the part of your last edit adding regional extinction in Israel.

However, you added Size details in a Taxonomy list Distribution column, which I find much more irrelevant than my changes which you reverted. Please fix it or tell me if it's ok that I'll fix it.

I encourage you to follow WP:DNB for other new editors in this page, and WP:CIV.

I'm also going to add WP:3RR in your user talk for future references.

Thank you. RanR (talk) 14:27, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for managing to talk this out instead of continuing to fight. My thoughts: RanR, re: size in the taxonomy section- that the Arabian leopard is the smallest subspecies is considered acceptable to state as a general fact (exact measurements would not be). Re: distribution in Israel- BhagyaMani, it isn't unreasonable to state that the Arabian leopard is considered possibly extinct in Israel, but RanR, a better (and more recent) source than a newspaper would be preferable. Happy editing, SilverTiger12 (talk) 19:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. Re distribution : I checked but did not find any more recent scientific article on leopard in southern Israel than the references in the 2019 IUCN Red List account; hence no confirmed record between 2006 and 2019. The only more recent one is about archaeological hunting records of large predators in the southern Levant. And I still think we should avoid references to newspapers, the more so as this page has GA status. Happy editing to you too. – BhagyaMani (talk) 20:15, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you [user: SilverTiger12]!

I wish I had more recent details on it in Israel, but the last confirmed sighting in the wild was in 2007. I just didn't understand why not noting Israel part at all.

Re Size it is indeed true, but I still think it make it now the exception in the list, surly not to start with this fact in a Distribution column. Your call. RanR (talk) 14:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

The weight record of an African leopard was 112 kg not 96 kg according to a Quora document about African leopards

An African leopard was shot in the Angolan rain forest on a scale it weighted 112 kg or 246 pounds: https://www.quora.com/Can-a-Boerboel-kill-a-leopard-since-it-s-bigger/answer/Andres-1057?ch=18&oid=268347885&share=804f4402&srid=ukZgd&target_type=answer

2A02:8440:3417:7C9A:0:56:C2F3:D501 (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

That's unreliable and the image was edited aswell Menvidas (talk) 05:55, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Lead image

I propose this image as lead image. The quality of the current lead image is poor. These other images 2, 3, 4, 5 could be included in the article and are possible lead images. Charlesjsharp (talk) 16:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but those images do not compete with the current one. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 14:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Atlas mountain African Leopard

It's a well known fact that a small group of African Leopards continue to live in the Atlas Mountains of North Africa between Morocco and Algeria. I understand that a reliable source explains that the Leopard is extinct there. However, this fact in the article is incorrect.

Could someone please help in altering the text with reference to explain that Morocco does have a Leopard population, and they are not extinct there? The image in the infobox would need changing, as well as the text. Cltjames (talk) 13:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

It's a well known fact means nothing on Wikipedia. Find reliable sources that prove this, and then add the appropriate text to the article along with a citation using WP:REFB. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:55, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with UtherSRG : an alleged sighting without any photographic evidence published in a local newspaper does NOT make this claim a well known fact. A reliable source would be e.g. a peer-reviewed journal. BhagyaMani (talk) 14:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The source that you, Cltjames, just added clearly states Atlas Leopard in Morocco. Status: Possibly Extinct. Last Record: 1983 (Drucker, 1991). So this source corroborates that it is EXTINCT in the Atlas mountains. BhagyaMani (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The source also states that the are unconfirmed sightings, which is adequate for the article, is it not? Cltjames (talk) 14:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

This journal is published by the author himself, so does not meet the criteria of a reliable source. UtherSRG: your thoughts? BhagyaMani (talk) 14:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

As its a self-published source that means it's not a reliable source so we shouldn't use it. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:49, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Page 4 of the text, Henschel et al., 2008, Fabrice Cuzin 2007, Jacobson, et al. 2016; Luipaard, 2020 and Busby et al. (2009). They all verify unconfirmed sightings, and then in the newspaper article I found, footprints of Leopards in the Atlas Mountains in the past few years. If 'Research Gate' cannot be used as a RS, then would someone help in finding these confirmations I found in the text... ? Cltjames (talk) 14:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@UtherSRG:@BhagyaMani:What about this text or this website or this peer reviewed website  ?? Cltjames (talk) 15:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Busby et al. (2009) referred to a single scat sample collected in 2005 in southeastern Algeria that was identified as being of a leopard by DNA analysis, but with a caveat. They also admitted that the leopard was not recorded in this area ever before. Jacobson et al. (2016) showed areas in Morocco and northern Algeria, where the leopard is possibly extinct and the small area reported by Busby et al. (2009) as possibly present, see Fig. 1A. Hence, none of these 2 sources confirm its presence in the Atlas mountains. BhagyaMani (talk) 17:39, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani The third source is peer reviewed and confirms the Leopord is 99% extinct, but explains 1% survived extinction in North Africa, which adds up to finds of rare sightings in the Atlas mountains. So, this is worth noting to explain the situation correctly. Currently, the article facts are misleading, and need updating. Cltjames (talk) 17:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani: I don't understand why you reverted? The section needs an overhaul to explain the situation correctly in North and West Africa... The reference is already in the text but is not explained correctly... I don't want an edit war, please respect the reference as a whole and explain your thought process.. Cltjames (talk) 09:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you not yet notice that I added this to the main text? BhagyaMani (talk) 13:04, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani:OK thanks for adding now, I was in a hurry and only responded to the revert. I updated the facts more specifically, your text did not match the reference. However, now there is a contradiction regarding the African Leopard. As in the Leopard#Distribution and habitat section, it rightfully explains there is an enormous decline, but still a population in West Africa, then in the Leopard#Conservation section it says the population is extinct in Morocco. Therefore the text does not add up and is not correctly supported by the references presented, as the Jacobson et al references show there is a small population in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco, but conservation website says it is extinct, this is why the note I added was properly suited to the statement of extinction... This issue need to be rectified. Cltjames (talk) 14:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Record leopard from Botswana

I guess it's time to change the weight of the record leopard from Africa. While now the heaviest is 96 kg, I have got a reliable record from Tony Sanchez Ariño (a professional experienced hunter) who in 1992 hunted with Chris Collins a 100 kg (220 lbs) leopard. The skull score was compared to SCI records and ranked from 6th to 9th place, indicating a score ranging from 460 to 473 mm (length+width). Source : Hunting in Botswana (Page 413) - Tony Sanchez Ariño

Keep in mind Tony Sanchez is world respected as a reliable source, so that even a scientific study and Almeida mentioned him in their works Menvidas (talk) 05:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)