Talk:Lydham Hall

Referencing

Based on

• Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 62 § Lydham Hall
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New South Wales § Lydham Hall [1]

I've made a start on cleaning up. There is still much work to do - I may do some of it (where I can) later. Note that when wrapping the current references in ref tags, I check that the correlation between inline "[X]" and Reference section "[X] Author, title, url" still matched what they were when created in this edit, but I have not checked that the references actually support the article text. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:01, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I am asking you to please leave alone this article. You did not see original documents. The petitions for school were only in 1886! Why did add 1885?

You have given incorrect source to it. It should be Sedneva,

The Lydham Hill Tale : The true story of Lydham Hall, Bexley, NSW.

I had a citation there in inverted quotes. Why have you undone it? It is a citation from the original document you never saw, but I did!

Give me a break and get on with other articles. Olga Sydney (talk) 14:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Joseph Davis advocated for school in 1885 and 1886

Regarding these edits: [2][3][4]

Pelosi says "Joseph Davis was one of four signatories to an application to establish a public school at Bexley in December 1885. ... a further application was also signed by Joseph Davis in May 1886" and "Joseph Davis was also a supporter of and signatory to applications in December 1885 and May 1886 for a government school to be established at Bexley".. Sedneva says "Davis also involved himself in the establishment of ... Bexley Public School, starting the Application ... in December 1885".

Mitch Ames (talk) 12:34, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Sedneva, https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-3329167839, pp 20-23: Davis also involved himself in the establishment of what we know now as Bexley Public School, starting the Application for the Establishment of a Public School in December 1885. Submitted in February 1886 to the Minister of Public Instruction, it was signed by D. L. White, Brick-maker of Bexley, James Glen, Accountant by Dept, John McLeod, Builder, Joseph Davis, Butcher, Esq, of Bexley, and Gardener Thomas Weir.

The neighbouring estates called Ocean View, Alphington Hill, Linton Heights, and Lydham Hill, all located within the former Chandler 1,200 acres land grant, submitted their own Application also requested the establishment of a local school just a month before. The signatories were William Humphry, Thomas Ervin, James Glen and Henry Kinsela. Both Applications were unsuccessful due to the very strong objection from existing schools in Kogarah, Arncliffe and Rockdale. The preparations for a new, now joint application began almost immediately and was lodged with the Department of Instruction in May 1886. This time it was signed by Joseph Davis, James Glen, Henry Kinsela, W Shepherd and John Mc...[illegible], and was successful. Soon the search for a suitable plot of land began and “one rod and 2 and a quarter perches” were acquired by the Ministry of Public Instruction on the 2nd February, 1887.

Opened in August 1887, Bexley Public school became the centre of local social life by hosting public meetings, fetes and athletic competitions on its grounds. The first teaching staff consisted of Mr Kendall Hume, Miss J. Landeis, Miss K.Smith and Miss R. Simpson, and Miss Cartwright for a Fancy Sewing Class, employed at the recommendation of Mrs Davis. The first students at Bexley Public were children of the Parkes, the Hindmarch, the Irwins, the Humphries, the Preddys, the Thompsons, the Heys, the Richardsons, the Kinselas and a number of the area’s other early settlers whose names were on the Application. Many of their children would later play important roles in the progress of Bexley and Rockdale as Aldermen and businessmen. A number of streets within Bexley and Rockdale were named after the families of these early school pupils. Olga Sydney (talk) 05:26, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

References

quote: to preserve the building

Re these edits: [5][6] ...

According to MOS:QUOTE: "Per the verifiability policy, direct quotations must be accompanied by an inline citation from a reliable source that supports the material."

Mitch Ames (talk) 12:46, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Sedneva, https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-3329167839, pp 2-3: As Mayor of Rockdale and at the time, member of the Council’s Building, Subdivision and Development Committee, Alderman Ron Rathbone learned of the upcoming subdivision of the Bexley property named Lydham Hall, and promptly suggested its purchase to Rockdale Council. Rathbone’s report to the Council contained information from the owners, who stated that “they fought developers

for years ... but now not able to maintain the property and pay rates.” The positions of Rathbone that3

Lydham Hall is to be "preserved as a place of historic interest, and ...as a fine example of Australian

Colonial Architecture” was more than convincing, and the Council decided to purchase Lydham Hall

for the purpose of creating a local museum. It was also determined to make this acquisition a formally

recognised part of the planned Centenary of Rockdale Municipality celebration in February 1971. More

over, the initial deposit to be produced of the Celebrations’ budget.

Footnotes: [Rockdale] Council Finance Committee Minutes. 4/6/70Item NO 7. F. 356 Proposed acquisition of Lydham Hall - Report by Mayor,3 page 887, Council minutes of ordinary meeting, 14/06/1970, and 4/3/71 page 273. Local Studies Collection, Bayside Council Library, NSW

Finance Committee meeting minutes, 4/6/70, page 881. Local Studies Collection, Bayside Council Library, NSW7

Sedneva, Olga, 2022 Page of 2 30 Olga Sydney (talk) 05:40, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

The text that you have posted above does not appear to include the phrase "to preserve the building" (or the shorter "preserve the building", which I removed the quotation marks from originally), which is the quotation in the article for which I seek a citation. Nor does the phrase appear in https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-3329167839. If the exact phrase does not appear in a source, then it ought not be enclosed in quotation marks. See the last paragraph of MOS:SCAREQUOTES. Hence my initial removal of the quotation marks. If that exact phrase appears in a source, then please cite the source that includes that exact phrase, per MOS:QUOTES Mitch Ames (talk) 09:37, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Reference for items donated by the local and wider community, and ... the National Trust of Australia

Re these edits: [7][8][9][10] ...

The reference does not appear to mention who donated or lent items to the museum. If it does, please provide a page number to make it easier to find. A quote from the reference may help. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

My mistake. It was in my St George Historical Society: Sedneva https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-3329119159, pp 3-7, 22-28: As previously noted, the collection primarily reflects the Anglo-Celtic demographic in the St George area at the time, which was the mainstream background of the local residents.

The first decade of the Museum's existence saw the collection growing rapidly. Appreciation to all

donors was issued regularly in the Society’s Bulletins from October 1971. Over seven hundred items

were received from over three hundred donors within the first decade of the Museum existence.

Generally the Lydham Hall Museum collection contains a range of working and middle class

household items typical of the United Kingdom and Ireland, where many were adapted from European

practices, customs and culture to suit the Antipodeans. The Museum collection features tableware,

interior decoration, clothing and fashion, military and definitely British Royal events memorabilia; and

even one particular Aussie invention - the meat box, a homage to James Harrison and his

technological advances in mechanical refrigeration.

A closer analysis of this uncurated collection reveals itself as largely related to the history of early

migrants and free settlers from the United Kingdom and Ireland and their Australian descendants. A

few artefacts can be attributed to Aboriginal culture. Since the majority of donations were received

from members of the public, the Lydham Hall Museum may be considered as authentically a ‘people’s’

museum turning its “brick-and-brack” into the story of an individual, a family or a place. According to

Eardley, many of the ‘old-time domestic furnishings,’ illustrate the craftsmanship of the past and are

“now old-fashioned but highly interesting equipment, ... [from] good class homes throughout the length

and breadth of Australia at the beginning of the present century.”

Receiving any donation always comes with an obligation and responsibility. When items are given

to the Museum, whereby the St. George Historical Society Inc becomes in effect a custodian of each

and every item. The changes in the Society’s Constitution support such responsibility for

accommodating, researching and promoting items of public heritage. Olga Sydney (talk) 05:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Sedneva, St George Historical Society Inc 1960-1970, p 12, via https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-3329069648: The SGHS Inc became the driving force behind the idea of enlightening the general public on the local history of the early migrants, their way of living and progress of the Municipality, through its activities and its Bulletins. The stories of local families, individuals and businesses were recorded creating an outstanding collection of original material for subsequent generations. Or look at the SGHS Inc bulletins dated 1970-1980s.

p 14: The public response to the Society’s calls for donations was generous

p 16: The Holbeach collection of furniture was loaned from the National Trust Australia (NSW division) Olga Sydney (talk) 09:07, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

References

October 2024

I have been quietly watching this page get screwed since 2021 and have chanced on this talk which explains much.

The information, references and biographies for this building have been reduced two poorly written and unsubstantiated sources (sednova and pelosi - and both referencing each other in their sources in some cases) and has had all other official and far more reputable sources such as those from the NSW Heritage Register and the St George Historical Society Incorporated (the latter being the managers of the house) removed. The grammar and spelling leaves a lot to be desired and the links are a disaster. The page has lost critical information about the architecture and has lost all historical site context - both of which are important. Other important references to people who lived in the house (H.E. Hoggan comes to mind) have been removed in favor of lengthy discussions on Davis and this information seems to undergo monthly changes. Meanwhile there appears to be some tit for tat arguments happening behind the scenes. Sorry to be so blunt but how can this mess be controlled? MoiraGable (talk) 03:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

You are welcome to edit the article, including adding material (with appropriate references), adding relevant references to existing material, correcting grammar and spelling, fixing links etc. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:56, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I would like to but I suspect any corrections not included in the Sednova publications will be removed or replaced by OlgaSydney and I don't want to waste my time at this point in time. I will wait until the page (eventually) dies down in a few years to make corrections and additions including the reinstatement of references from pre-2020. In the meantime, good luck Mitch Ames. It is good to see that at least the references are being fixed although it seems a job bigger than it needs to be. :) MoiraGable (talk) 05:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC)