Talk:Marie de' Medici

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Spelling

This should be at Marie de Medici, shouldn't it? This is how she is normally known in English. john k 20:57, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th ed., calls her Marie de Médicis. They save the apostrophe for those who remained Italian, and call Catherine both "Catherine de Médicis" and "Caterina de' Medici". I think mostly we need to set up a good system of redirects. - Nunh-huh 21:11, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hmm...I've always thought the "Médicis" spelling, which is the Frenchified version of the name, is not normally used in English anymore. Columbia Encyclopedia gives "Marie de' Medici." Encarta, though, gives "Marie de Médicis," as does Britannica. What should be noted is that every source gives "Marie," not Maria. john k 21:25, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I think that once you translate from Italian it ought to be Marie, either in French or English. I think it would be fine to move it to either Marie de Medici or Marie de Médicis. (Perversely, probably the former, because although I myself love diacritics, I don't think we ought to require them to access our article titles.) - Nunh-huh 00:01, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't care whether you use the English version (Marie) or the Italian (Maria). One thing I will insist on is that you use the correct "de'" . All the other Medicis (Lorenzo, Catherine, etc) have the "de'" form, which is what most histories in English about them use. Also, I have moved the Talk: page to the same name. Noel 04:48, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

FWIW, Yahoo shows 1,260 for "Maria de Medici" on pages in English, versus 3,820 for "Marie de Medici", so clearly the latter term is the preferred one in English. It's much better to use Yahoo/Google searches for things like that, rather than rely on a particular source. Noel 04:57, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad you mentioned the de' issue: I have been writing lots of articles on Italian composers and now I'm fixing where I've been sloppy. de' is correct. Happy editing, Antandrus 05:00, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The apostrophe is fine with me. I didn't really care. as to Marie - I would submit that it would be difficult to find a single historical work in English that refers to her primarily as "Maria de Medici" john k 05:00, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, the book I use most for the Medici's (Hibbert's "House of Medici") has her as "Maria" exclusively in the text - but lists her under "Marie" in the index! Go figure! Anyway, I think I have fixed everything now - all the redirects point directly to the final target, and I've got the Talk: page in the right place, with all the redirects for that fixed too. Noel 05:16, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I guess it would make sense for a book about Italian history to use her Italian name. But Marie was, of course, largely an important figure in French history. And in that context she's always "Marie", as far as I'm aware. john k 06:22, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Eight years later... somehow this article ended up being called "Marie de' Medici", which appears to be a combination of the French version of her forename and the Italian version of her surname. Very odd. I've moved it to Marie de Médicis which is the name given first in the article text. — Hex (❝?!❞) 18:00, 14 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Descendants

Moved to Descendants of Marie de' Medici.

I moved this from the main page due to objections about it not being wikipedia'ish and that it was monstrous. On other pages the decendent table has gone down well. I understand how it looks long, but since on all printers I have tried wiki pages never print well, I assumed that the screen media would be fine. Also it makes the traversing of the family much easier plus more entertaining for children. Hey but what do I know, except that there is little point in being bold!! --Nexus5 15:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Give it its own page, Chart of descendents of Marie de' Medici, or the like, and link it from the article at See also. That's bold!--Wetman 15:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Date of birth

Many websites give the year of birth "1573", according to the "Medici Archive" it is "1575" ! Her mother, Johanna von Habsburg-de' Medici, gave birth to Lucretia de' Medici on November 07, 1572, which makes it biologically impossible to have another child in April 1573. Compare as well: (Children of Maria's mother Johanna) http://documents.medici.org/people_details.cfm?personid=404 84.133.25.96 18:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, 1573 seems to be correct, the "Medici Archive" may be wrong! Their comment: "The biographical entry in our database is based on Gaetano Pieraccini, who erroneously claims that Marie was born in 1575 (though in a footnote he mentions that Galluzzi placed her birth in 1573). We are changing the record right now."

But in this case the birthdate of Maria's elder sister Lucretia will have to be corrected as well. Up to now it is published as per "November 07, 1572", which then is biologically impossible. 84.133.25.139 18:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Following several months of research into the Medici family birthdates the "Medici Archive" has now confirmed the birthdate of Lucretia de' Medici as per November 07, 1572. Therefore the originally published birthdate of Maria de' Medici, April 26, 1575, was correct! http://documents.medici.org/people_details.cfm?personid=409 79.198.42.220 (talk) 17:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed mistitled image

This image is not Maria dei' Medici. It is Eleonora di Garcia di Toledo (known as "Leonora"), the wife of Don Pietro de' Medici, a son of Cosimo I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany. Not to be confused with Eleonora di Toledo. I will try to get the image retitled. qp10qp (talk) 09:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

re: the commented out "cousins"

The cousinage of Margaret of Valois and Marie de' Medici is certainly valid, but while it might be informative to point out that the mother of Margaret of Valois was a Medici, I don't think the relationship is otherwise close enough to be worth detailing in the article.

Margaret of Valois and Marie de' Medici were third cousins once removed; Lorenzo I de' Medici and Clara Orsini were the 3G-grandparents of Margaret of Valois and the 2G-grandparents of Marie de' Medici, as follows:

Lorenzo I de’ Medici (1449-1492/1494)
& Clara Orsini (1450/1-1488)
|   Lucrezia de’ Medici (1470-after 1550)
|   & Jacopo Salviati (1461-1533)
|   |   Maria Salviati (1499-1543)
|   |   & Giovanni de’ Medici (1498-1526)
|   |   |   Cosimo I de’ Medici (1519-1574)
|   |   |   & Eleonore of Toledo (1522-1562)
|   |   |   |   Francesco I de’ Medici (1541-1587)
|   |   |   |   & Johanna of Austria (1547-1578)
|   |   |   |   |   Marie de’ Medici (1573-1642)
|   |   |   |   |   & Henri IV of France (1553-1610)
|   Piero II de’ Medici (1471-1503)
|   & Alfonsina Orsini (1472-1520)
|   |   Lorenzo II de’ Medici (1492-1519)
|   |   & Madeleine de la Tour d'Auvernge (1501-1519)
|   |   |   Catherine de’ Medici (1519-1589)
|   |   |   & Henri II of France (1519-1559)
|   |   |   |   Margaret of Valois (1553-1615)
|   |   |   |   & Henri IV of France (1553-1610)

I'm going to remove the comment; if anyone feels otherwise, feel free to restore it.

- Nunh-huh 06:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that removing mention of the cousinhood is the best idea, because it had no dynastic significance at that remove. qp10qp (talk) 08:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article too novel-like

The article needs to have some of the novel-like passages and commentary removed.--jeanne (talk) 12:43, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request rephrasing of descendency statements

In the Children section the following statement is made: "the Medici became part of the European Royal families, eventually leading to Prince William of Wales". The last part is a bit misleading. Marie's descendents did include Stuart monarchs but I don't see a link to the Hanovers and Windsors. Prince William's descendency is through the Spencers and its from five illegitimate children of James II and Charles II. Did a miss a more direct link? The lineage of William is interesting and noteworthy, but the phrasing should be tweaked in my opinion. Thanks.DavidRF (talk) 19:37, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Prince William is descended from Marie de Medici through his mother Diana. Diana Spencer, being descended from the illegitimate children of Charles II and James II, who were both the sons of Henrietta Maria of France, who in turn was a daughter of Marie de Medici, was therefore a direct descendant of Marie de Medici.--jeanne (talk) 12:57, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

marriage

Did Marie actually marry at the age of 25? I thought royal girls married at 15. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Melaniegreyton (talk • contribs) 16:10, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

yes she married very late --79.65.93.7 (talk) 16:27, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There was no fixed age for royalty to marry. Some married young, some in their late teens, others over thirty. Isabella, the daughter of Edward III married at 33.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Coronation

Does anyone have information as to why she was not officially crowned Queen of France until nearly 10 years after her marriage to Henry IV? Obviously, a coronation takes some time to plan and I'm assuming she was legally the Queen upon her marriage to Henry. But 10 years seems like a long delay, especially since she had provided an heir within the first year of marriage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.99.53.224 (talk) 02:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Late Coronation for Queens?

My understanding (not yet well researched) is that royal consort wives might have limited standing until they produced an heir, which at that time needed to be male and perhaps past the 5 years of highest danger by childhood diseases. I haven't studied Marie's specifics much yet, but this may be a reason. Her son Nicolas Henri, Duke of Orléans died at 4 years of age and had never even been solemnly baptized.

Descendants

Is it really needed in the opening paragraph to state that the former Princess of Wales and Princess Michael of Kent are descendants of Marie? They are/were British royals with distant relations, although direct descendants. Couldn't that be put later on in the article? There are many other notable descendants. -- Lady Meg (talk) 03:41, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Section needs expansion

The Early life section needs fleshing out. Surely more text can be added about her life prior to her marriage to Henri.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:04, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Some issues

- present tense is sometimes used - unnecessary information added - some sentences are run-ons I did a quick once-over and fixed everything I saw, but let me know if I missed anything. CRYPTNYMPH (talk) 19:50, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Confused Ancestry - Definite Error

The article states:

Maria was the sixth daughter of Francesco I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany, and Archduchess Joanna of Austria. She was a descendant of Lorenzo the Elder –a branch of the Medici family sometimes referred to as the 'cadet' branch– through his daughter Lucrezia de' Medici, and was also a Habsburg through her mother, who was a direct descendant of Joanna of Castile and Philip I of Castile.

However, Lorenzo the Elder is not the father of Lucrezia de Medici. Lorenzo the Magnificent was. Making this more confusing is that Marie is, in fact, also a descendant of Lorenzo the Elder, but not through Lucrezia. If other Wiki pages are to be believed, she descends from both men. 68.11.24.2 (talk) 21:29, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the "through his daughter Lucrezia di Lorenzo de' Medici" part. I don't see the reasoning for such convoluted statements in an article unless they are pertinent and can be cited by reliable source(s). --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]