Talk:Peenemünde Army Research Center

Polish intelligence?

I have removed the following poorly-written text from the article:

However, witnesses and documents state that Polish underground army (Armia Krajowa or AK) intelligence and some information from others (including a Danish pilot who photographed something looking like a V rocket nearby) unmasked Peenemünde. British intelligence for years denied that it received any information about Peenemünde from Poland. However copies of reports emerged after the war in Poland. R. V. Jones contradicted himself: first he denied that fact, and later in his book The Wizard War he wrote that many bombs fell on camps for Foreign POWs who gave the allies information; he failed to point out that these Polish workers had AK membership. Within the last few years Polish politicians and historians have demanded access to British archives (since Britain held archives of most if not all AK reports). So far the British authorities have answered that all AK reports were destroyed.

1. "witnesses and documents"? Which witnesses, and what documents? Sounds like propaganda.
2. Who is R.V. Jones, and what does whether or not he 'contradicted himself' have to do with this article?
3. What on Earth is that AK Membership story going on about?
4. This is heavily biased against Britain - see point 1.

Can someone (perhaps using English-language sources) please rewrite this and add any relevant information back to the article? Colonel Mustard 08:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I have reinserted the info. Rewrite it if you want. The previous article about Pennemunde was heavily biased against Poles. R.V.Jones was one of the authors who wrote book about Pennemunde. Sources (in Polish, use babelfish to translate), for example: http://www.angelfire.com/nj/odszkodowania/rzecz19990807.html

Or just insert "Armia Krajowa Peenemunde" in google.

It must be noted, that Brits were getting two copies of every report. In 1945 they demanded even originals. Bortnowski, supsecting something, denied this information. Suprisingly after the war no document was found left in British archives. They were all erased.

Polish government asked about Polish intelligence archives. The answer from Brits that they were destroyed, because they have no significance; then they changed their position that they were destroyed by accident. There are no English sources on that, mostly probably because it were English which created the controversy in the first place. Szopen 10:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockhaus_d'%C3%89perlecquesThe Geologist (talk) 16:11, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Polish and Chechen historical Revisionism

I must note here just as a comments, that I read a lot of the second world war related articles and that a lot have a polish nationalistic touch. I would not say they lie, but they shift the focus towards a polish view of things and hinder details, witch are under not political historians well known to come up. So is the polish influence in the bombe raid against Peenemünde more a myth. One must know that their where always especially the Swedish, from witch I personally know, and other diplomats and scientist, witch where close enough to such projects and gave informations.I am sure, that the British analyzed a lot of sources, not only polish, before they hit.

I must say there is a kind of Polish and Chechen historical Revisionism taking place in some pages about the second world war, and resent polish and Chechen national history.

Johann

If Britain had received Polish intelligence, why deny it? Bastie 17:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Good question. That's why Polis-British commission was established and that's why they published the report, which showed that British have used A LOT of Polish intelligence. In fact, almost HALF of British info came from Polish sources.

http://www.radio.com.pl/polonia/article.asp?tId=24739&j=2 http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=81019 Between 1940 and 1944 Polish intelligence gave British more than 70.000 raport, of which British value 25% of extremely valuable, 60% as very valuable, 12% as valuable, 2% as low value, 1% as without value. Szopen 08:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

R V Jones said that the first mention of Peenemunde was in the Oslo Report and acknowledges the reports from the 'foreign labourers" even if he does not say that they were Polish, AK Hugo999 13:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Many of the participants would still have been alive at the time Jones wrote the book - 1977 - and as Poland was still behind the Iron Curtain he may well have been (justifiably) circumspect in revealing names of people who may have been vulnerable to their own country's intelligence services. Naming Poles who had had contact with the British intelligence services could have lead to these Poles being arrested by their own government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.220.15 (talk) 15:10, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

POV

The tone of this article is rater POV. It seems to be operating on the assumption that the Poles are correct, and seems even accusatory towards the British. —Marshall19 67.180.56.14 05:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, Poland dragged Britain into a World War and then surrendered so I suppose they may be feeling a bit embarrassed as regards Polish contributions. Poland was also behind the Iron Curtain for much of the intervening years, so much of what the official Polish line says must be considered suspect, their political master, Stalin, having no love for the UK, it being in his perceived interest to stir things up. The point is also made by them about the Warsaw Uprising, where various suspicious and ungallant motives are attributed to the UK in not doing more to support the Polish resistance fighters. The point there is that it was a LONG way away, and the aircraft available couldn't carry more than a token load as far as Warsaw and then hope to get back to friendly territory. They were lucky to get that, as not only were the Nazis trying to shoot them down, but Russian aircraft were reported to have attacked British aircraft supplying Warsaw too.

There seems to be a widespread revisionism that tries to paint Britain as some sort of bogeyman that deserves the blame for the military shortcomings of the countries involved. The point is that if these countries had bothered to actually fight with any sort of aggressiveness and vigour in 1939/40 then they might have been spared the German Occupation and subsequent Soviet domination, instead in most cases they gave up, leaving Britain and her Empire/Commonwealth, so to speak, in the lurch. If it hadn't been for the British and her Empire/Commonwealth then Poland would probably still be under Nazi rule today, and the Poles as a people would no longer exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.253.10 (talk) 18:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Belka

Does anyone know that Peenemunde and its research center is based on Mund Valley, Belka from Ace Combat Zero? Scarlet Marines (talk) 11:50, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

David Irving as a source.

David Irving is referenced as a source for some information, particularly in section 2, which is a problem for multiple reasons. Irving is an anti-Semite and a Holocaust denier, and it has been proven that he intentionally mistranslated sources and actually altered them to make Nazi crimes look less severe or disappear altogether. At the very least any information taken from his work should be reevaluated in order to make sure it is valid, and/or it should be removed on the basis of principle.

References