Talk:Shamsheer Vayalil

Untitled

Are you here because some editor you don't know has asked you for your expert/experienced help with the article? Before you spend time satisfying the request, see this (below).

For Updation of net worth column

Since, Dr. Shamsheer Vayalil occupied 99th position in Forbes 100 Richest Indian list 2019.His net worth is also increased. So,his old Forbes profile(Reference 1) as well as old net worth column needs to be updated with new one in the article. I am providing link of Dr. Shamsheer Vayalil updated Forbes profile 2019 [[1]] Please! anyone help in adding this information. Thanks. (223.230.170.254 (talk) 06:01, 29 November 2019 (UTC))

The net worth of $1.4B in the infobox is correct according to the Forbes page, which is not an "article". Neither the suggested source, nor the existing cite to a similar page, have specific publication dates or authors, and seem to be "profile" pages that are updated in near real-time; I don't believe we should cite either as a reliable source. I also don't see any need or justification to add another digit of precision – we're not supposed to be showing a "real time net worth" in this encyclopedia (see WP:IINFO et al.). For now, I'll leave the existing cite and value alone, but I'd suggest finding a "real" source that discusses his net worth (i.e., what are his holdings and why and when did they add up to US$1.4B).

I've fixed the cite for the ABLF 2018 award and moved it (and the 2019 award) to the top of the descending-date-ordered list. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 19:36, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Again, one more problem the reference number 32 is also not showing the desire page. It seems that article's reference need proper repair. Thanks. (223.230.154.3 (talk) 03:39, 6 December 2019 (UTC))

I removed "2011 – Honorary Stevie Award for Annual International Business" because neither the source, nor its archived version as of December 2011, mention VPS, Shamsheer, or Amanat. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 05:52, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

• I have seen Mukesh Ambani Wikipedia article in that his Forbes profile is updated with real time net worth(as of December 2019). So, why not we can update Forbes profile of Shamsheer Vayalil with real time net worth(as of December 2019). I had provided link of his Forbes profile above. Please! help in updating that.

Thanks. (223.230.167.193 (talk) 11:16, 13 December 2019 (UTC))

Stevie Awards 2011

• Hi, Yes in the archived version it is not mentioned about VPS, Shamsheer or Amanat. You couldn't find these names (which you mentioned) because the award was given in the category whose description I have mentioned below:-

Company of the year-Health product and Services.

Distinguished Honourees:

Lifeline Hospital, Abu Dhabi, UAE. (because VPS Healthcare was formerly known as Lifeline Hospital, Abu Dhabi, UAE (2011)).

Hope, this explanation of mine made everything clear. For more details please visit page 8 of 42 of this website [[2]]. Restoring anything from archived version is a very tough task. Thanks (106.207.53.80 (talk) 04:17, 8 December 2019 (UTC))

On my talk page, 223.230.130.24 has asked me for (unspecified) "help" in adding or readding the claim in this article on Shamsheer Vayalil (somebody I'd never previously heard of) the claim that he won a "Stevie Award".

The article Stevie Awards starts by saying that they "are a set of hundreds of business awards given annually by the American Business Awards organization". Hundreds of business awards given annually: think about what that implies. And the article continues by saying that application costs hundreds of dollars and that a high percentage of applicants win prizes.

If I were a businessman, I might want to buy a Stevie Award: it might look good on my CV (at least in the eyes of gullible readers).

I don't know if this fellow won one of these awards. And if he did win it, I don't understand how this could be of encyclopedic significance. So thanks to AlanM1 for looking [see previous section on this talk page]; but even if there's evidence that the claim is true, I'd say, skip it. -- Hoary (talk) 22:25, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@Hoary: That, and needing a source and verification for the relation between Lifeline Hospital and the subject and/or VPS, is why I thought I'd wait a day or five before doing anything. This issue and the other similar awards have probably been discussed somewhere, if someone would like to go hunting. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:07, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

The IP 223.230.137.155 on my talk page asked to help "unpacking an archive". A similar request, referring to this page, was put on fourthree other users talk pages by the same IP. Buyer beware! Wakari07 (talk) 14:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Maybe I was overly suspicious, despite counting 67 WP:SPA IPs (list available on request), as the above link contains no trojans. But still the awards seem vanity and non-notable to me. Wakari07 (talk) 20:39, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

It occurs to me that Special:WhatLinksHere/Stevie_Awards might function as a handy guide to identifying promotional articles. (Similarly, I find that googling Wikipedia for "tender age" is a surefire way to find articles that are hagiographic or terribly written or both.) -- Hoary (talk) 08:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps the IP user (or anyone) could address the issue of the subject's name, posted below? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 20:47, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

• Hi, "Stevie Awards" is one of the prestigious awards. There are several rumors that it can be bought by spending thousands of dollars but it is totally wrong. This award is given to those people or organisation who achieved success after very hard and decent work. In India Shamsheer Vayalil is the only person who was awarded by "Stevie Awards" in 2011. That's why it is important to add about this award in his wikipedia article. I think this explanation is enough now.

Thanks. (223.230.170.121 (talk) 03:55, 13 December 2019 (UTC))

• I don't believe you, IP. These awards are so prestigious that googling either "stevie award" site:nytimes.com or "stevie awards" site:nytimes.com brings me a total of zero hits. -- Hoary (talk) 05:49, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Shamsheer or Vayalil or Parambath?

Why does the article refer to the subject as "Shamsheer", unlike our standard of using the surname ("Vayalil")? The lead says he is named "Shamsheer Vayalil Parambath" but "Parambath" is not mentioned elsewhere in the article. Can someone clarify these issues? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 20:23, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Seems like there are sources for both: with Parambath and without Parambath; about 1:30 ratio, but still significant hits for the "with" case, like this and this. I can't really fix the instances where he is referred to as Shamsheer (which is hopefully his given name at least), without understanding his correct surname. Is this like Spanish names, where the second name is the father's and the third is the mother's family name? Or maybe like Nepali names that end in Sherpa? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 12:42, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

COI

Since the end of November, this talk page has been edited by:

• 223.230.170.254
• 223.230.154.3
• 106.207.53.80
• 223.230.130.24
• 223.230.170.121
• 223.230.167.193

Each of these IPs:

• belongs to Bharti Airtel Ltd;
• likes to use the same edit summary ("Added content");
• appears to have no interest in Wikipedia outside this one article;
• seems to want to aggrandize Shamsheer Vayalil.

Jmertel23 has already warned Abrjestin about editing with a COI.

Bharti Airtel Ltd user, please read and digest Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide. -- Hoary (talk) 12:27, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Hoary: This IP has been editing since May from various IPs (I have a list saved but its not as many as the 67 noted above by Wakari07). Every edit, as far as I can tell, has been to or about Shamsheer and early in the sequence the IP was blocked after disrupting the help desk with persistent requests for trivial edits. There is a discussion above in August (just beneath the thread referring to images) where their motives were questioned and it contains some links to discussions at the help desk and also my TP. The IP, apparently, does not want to learn to edit Wikipedia and has stated they are an admirer of Shamsheer (a 'fan') but claims no other connection. Multiple editors have tried to assist but most aeem to have 'fallen away' over time. Eagleash (talk) 12:50, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

My list is at 72 IPs now and I also suspect a blocked puppetmaster account. I identified two other single-purpose accounts on the same theme. But I'm reluctant to file a SPI because I'm not fully convinced of their ill will. Maybe they're just who they claim they are: a 14-year old boy. In this edit, they claimed to want to improve their editing skills, quickly editing that to claiming to want to improve Wikipedia articles. On the other hand, I wouldn't be astonished if Wikipedia was the theatre of some AI experiment, in which case I'd evaluate it as toddler skills, infantile behaviour and bachelor level. Wakari07 (talk) 13:23, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

(ec) I might be mis-remembering because it's late, but I think I remember them claiming to be a 14-year-old in one of their user talk page pestering posts. FWIW. Funny coincidence, this ec. I backed off for the same reason. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 13:28, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

In this edit 6 months ago they claimed to be a 12-year-old boy. Wakari07 (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

List is at 87 IPs now. Some vandalism/clumsiness, but also slight evidence of learning. Wakari07 (talk) 17:28, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Wakari07: I swear there are days when I wonder when we're going to get the notice that this was all a grand experiment. I mean the whole project. ;-| —[AlanM1(talk)]— 13:31, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Did you read Kafka's "A Report to an Academy" (source)? That's how I can imagine that day — when we're going to present reckoning of whether we learnt or learned ;-) Wakari07 (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I should apologize for having brought up "afresh" concerns already investigated more thoroughly and expressed more ably, and thus having perhaps wasted others' time ... but I have to admit that I'm delighted by the responses. I'll soon be exploring Kafka for the first time in quite a while. -- Hoary (talk) 02:10, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Not a waste of time. Thank you for your contributions. Wakari07 (talk) 18:15, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

• I and my brother edit from same smart phone and we both are fond of this single article only. Our intention is not to vandalise Wikipedia & neither we feel shame in editing this article only. We think that you all have made a group and your intention is to blacklist our IP to stop us from editing. Is this the way to interact with learners like us?

Thanks. (223.230.175.205 (talk) 09:19, 15 December 2019 (UTC))

Thank you for your reply. Please do understand that we are individuals discussing here, expressing doubts and exchanging arguments. For me, as things stand now, I will not pursue blacklistingblocking of your IPs. Wakari07 (talk) 18:11, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

IP numbers aren't "blacklisted"; they're "blocked". Blocking an IP number (or user ID) requires any of several reasons. -- Hoary (talk) 02:16, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

I stand corrected. Wakari07 (talk) 11:15, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Why you all want to block us? We never tried to vandalise Wikipedia because we know it's importance. My younger brother is still learning to edit and sometimes make mistakes. I apologize on behalf of him and make sure that in future he will never violate any rule of Wikipedia.

Thanks. (223.230.131.247 (talk) 06:01, 16 December 2019 (UTC))

Who has said that they want to block you? -- Hoary (talk) 08:43, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Hi, from now onwards I'll leave suggestions related to article on it's talk page rather editing myself which might create destruction of article. Is it Ok now?

Thanks. (2401:4900:1680:7758:1:2:9ED0:4937 (talk) 10:45, 16 December 2019 (UTC))

Needs review

Hi everyone, Please go through the first line of "Career"paragraph in the article and tell whether the line is correct or not. My question is " Was Shamsheer Vayalil radiologist for 12 months ? ". Is he not a radiologist by profession at present?

• There were several edits done by AlanM1(user) which were not appropriate. These edits were in Early life and career paragraph.
• These are as follows:

In Early life paragraph: He removed the name of the city where " Sri Ramachandra Medical College and Research Institute "is situated. Next, he also removed the name of the city where " Massachusetts General Hospital" is situated. I think these edits should be reviewed. Thanks. (223.230.155.33 (talk) 04:10, 17 December 2019 (UTC))

• If your answer is " Wikipedia rule says that not to add name of the place where the Institution is situated ";then please visit " Education " paragraph of Mukesh Ambani article and tell whether the rule is violated or not. I think Wikipedia gives more importance to very rich and powerful people like Mukesh Ambani.

Thanks. (223.230.155.33 (talk) 05:06, 17 December 2019 (UTC))

This has been discussed before and indicated to you that it is not necessary to mention (or link to) the location of the educational insitution. Information about the college etc. can be obtained via the link to its own article. There are 5,000,000 + articles in Wikipedia and few are perfect. Things in other articles that are incorrect should not be used to justify similar errors elsewhere (I.e. at this page). Eagleash (talk) 05:53, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• Very nice justification "few are perfect" or you can say that editors give attention to those person article who are very rich and powerful because they might be paid for this special attention. Wikipedia is totally biased.

Thanks. (223.230.155.33 (talk) 06:39, 17 December 2019 (UTC))

@223.230.155.33: Comments like that are why people might view your participation here as a negative for the project, and why SPAs in general are a problem – they tend to only see things through the eyes of the one article in which they are interested, and don't bother to get a feeling for the project as a whole, our policies, and the reasons for them. The argument doesn't even make sense, given the subject's substantial wealth and presumed "power", unless you're assuming we work for some enemy of his, which is absurd. I don't know how removing the city of Mass General (one of the world's better-known hospitals) could be considered bias. Neither could removing space-wasting bullets from the infobox (again based on common usage in most infoboxes here). Please spend some time reading WP:MOS and its various linked articles and sub-pages if you really want to understand how articles (not just this one) are supposed to be put together. Try to see, from the enormity of it, that this is millions of man-hours' work by many dedicated editors whose concerns are far greater than what one (or two) people think should appear in any one article.

For the record, I've never met or heard of Dr. Vayalil before working on this page, and have no conflicts of interest in this regard. My edits are, as far as I know, improvements to the article and within the scope of my duty to the project, its readers, and its rules. I welcome review by other experienced editors.

Also, please try to indent your posts consistently so readers can understand who is saying what. When you put a line break before "Thanks" and your signature, it doesn't get indented – each paragraph needs its own indent colons. Better still, don't insert line breaks in your posts to talk pages at all – use {{Pb}} to create a new paragraph, as I've done here. (ed:) This is also the only way to do it if you insist on using bullet points (*) instead of colons (:).—[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:41, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• Hi User:AlanM1

May I know why bullets (•) are present in infobox of Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates article? Are those bullets not wasting space of infobox? 

One more thing, generally it is said that on Wikipedia we don't indicate name of the place where an institution is situated but I think this rule is not mandatory for Mark Zuckerberg article (go through early life second paragraph). I think wikipedia has soft corner towards very rich and powerful people. Do you have a genuine explanation for this? If not then restore those bullets in the infobox and the name of the cities where those Institutions (from where Shamsheer Vayalil obtained his degrees)are situated in Shamsheer Vayalil article.

Thanks. (223.230.173.137 (talk) 12:19, 20 December 2019 (UTC))

You might like to ask about the Bezos and Gates articles on their talk pages ... and so forth. Meanwhile, what is this man's name? -- Hoary (talk) 12:37, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

• Bezos and Gates talk pages are protected. We are not allowed to have any access on their talk pages.

His name is Shamsheer Vayalil Thanks. (223.230.173.137 (talk) 13:14, 20 December 2019 (UTC))

No, I am not going to put interpuncts (as I believe they are called) into the infobox of this article. (One reason is that I think bio-infoboxes are stupid. But it's not the only reason.) Bezos's talk page is not protected. I didn't bother looking at Gates's, but I doubt that it's protected. -- Hoary (talk) 14:00, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Let me try this again. The bullet points were removed from the infobox for the purpose of reducing the number of ugly line-wraps – to allow some things, like the awards, to fit within one line in the infobox. Not every article is this way, but AFAICT, it is current best practice (see Template:Infobox person#Inline lists (vertical)), and it was certainly beneficial in this case.

Any argument that there should be bullets here because they are somewhere else (though they are not present at either Gates or Bezos, contrary to your contention) because Dr. Vayalil is not important or wealthy or powerful enough to have bullets (huh?), is basically a non-starter – that's not how we convince people here, and continuing to do it will be met with sanctions for disruption. (Only politicians and pundits are allowed to just make things up. :-( )

We don't necessarily indicate the location of an institution if it is unnecessary, as I believe it is for Massachusetts General Hospital. It's one of the oldest and best-known hospitals in the world and the name certainly says enough if you didn't know where it was. It's really not that big a deal, though. If other experienced editors think it should be there, and it's too hard for readers who don't know it to mouse over or click the link to it if they don't know, and care what city it's in, or might confuse it with some other (non-existent) Mass Gen, then by all means, tell readers it's in Boston. (Repeating some of this here from my talk page, since this unregistered editor can't be pinged, and changes addresses routinely, unfortunately within .128.0/18 with collateral.) —[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:49, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

• Note: There are bullet points at Gates and Bezos pages, in the 'occupation' fields but they are produced by the template used (hlist) and therefore will not be removed. Eagleash (talk) 10:11, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Right – I see that now in both of those articles. However, what was done in this article was to remove the bullets from the vertical lists, per the template doc and reasons cited above. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:16, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I guess that's not completely true, either. The occupation field is also vertical (unusually) because of the width of the items. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:21, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

To see what we're talking about, exactly, this is before and after. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:25, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Not a problem to me; the difficulty is explaining it to this editor! Eagleash (talk) 10:28, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Edit request 21 December 2019

• @AlanM1: I'll request you to create bullets by using template (hlist) in Shamsheer Vayalil's article (in occupation column, infobox) as those bullets are present in Gates and Bezos article and also provide name of the city where those educational institutions are located (as it was before). After that no any modification is required in Shamsheer Vayalil's article. Then there will be equality between Jeff, Bill and Shamsheer Vayalil article. Thanks (223.230.173.137 (talk) 14:01, 21 December 2019 (UTC))
• In the 'career' paragraph also indicate the name of city where "Sheikh Khalifa Medical City" is located (as it was before).

(223.230.151.74 (talk) 04:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC))

•  Not done The occupation field in the infobox uses the "vertical" list style, as mentioned above, because "Chairman and MD, VPS Healthcare" is wide. Only short, one or two word, occupations should use the "horizontal" list style. Again, see Template:Infobox person#Inline lists. That is why the Gates and Bezos article uses that style, and why this one does not. Note that I did not change this – it was (correctly) using the "vertical" style before my edits.
•  Done In the Early life section, I have added Chennai to Sri Ramachandra Medical College and Research Institute and Boston to Mass Gen (though I don't believe the latter is necessary, and will not object if someone else feels it does not belong, or should not be linked). I also added Abu Dhabi, UAE to SKMC in the Career section.
• Once again, equality with Gates and Bezos is not a valid argument in the way you mean it (which can be seen in your comments above). Any edits made to this article, like any other article, will be done in accordance with established policy and practice.

—[AlanM1(talk)]— 06:51, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks!

I am thankful to all those who gave their valuable time and contribution in the betterment of this article. I really appreciate all those contributions. (223.230.151.74 (talk) 12:12, 22 December 2019 (UTC))

Edit request 26 December 2019

Hi @AlanM1: can you also add Porur before "Chennai" to Sri Ramachandra Medical College and Research Institute in Early life section? It's necessary to add "Porur" because it's the city where this college is actually situated. I hope I'm clear enough to explain you the entire matter. Thanks. (223.230.172.15 (talk) 15:57, 26 December 2019 (UTC))

It seems that Porur is a neighborhood of Chennai, not a city. Since this is not an article about the college, and there is not more than one SRMCRI in the city (or anywhere), Chennai seems to be sufficient detail for a global audience of readers. Wikipedia tries to not burden readers with too much detail that is not directly relevant to the article they are reading. It's very easy for mobile users to click on the link to read more about the college, and even easier for desktop users to mouse over the link to see a preview of the college's article, should they want more detail. If I'm missing something (like there is a reason that readers must know what neighborhood of Chennai the college is in to understand Dr. Vayalil fully), and you can find a good policy-based reason (i.e. somewhere in the Wikipedia (project) namespace), please re-open this request by changing |answered=yes to |answered=no. I hope this explanation is helpful. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 04:01, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Government(Cabinet) in India is going to turn 75 hospitals into medical colleges. One of the hospital which will get nearly the same name as "SRMCH",is going to be opened shortly in a small province of Orissa. So, to remove this confusion I asked for adding the name of the city also beside the college name. Thanks. (223.230.172.15 (talk) 05:04, 27 December 2019 (UTC))

I don't see any confusion. Chennai, Tamil Nadu, is nearly 2,000 km from Odisha. If/when this facility appears, it would be called, for example "Sri Ramachandra Medical College, Bhubaneswar". That has no bearing on the article name for the one in Chennai, nor what it should be called when referring to it in articles. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 03:59, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Edit request 3 January 2020

• In the early life paragraph the word " radiologist " should be in the form of link because in India many people don't know who radiologists actually are. When the word radiologist will in the form of link then people can easily know it's meaning by clicking on it's link.

Thanks. (223.230.151.127 (talk) 07:37, 3 January 2020 (UTC))

 Not done There is a link to radiology in the section above and the term 'radiologist', if linked, redirects to that page. Eagleash (talk) 10:46, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oh! Got it..... (223.230.151.127 (talk) 11:45, 3 January 2020 (UTC))
• Atleast the word "chairman" in the infobox ; "physician", "entrepreneur" and "philanthropist" in starting paragraph of the article should be in the form of link. So that it would be easy for a reader to understand about these words (I'm not saying that readers of US, UK will not understand the meanings of these words but for those who don't actually know what these words mean)

Thanks. (223.230.151.127 (talk) 12:59, 3 January 2020 (UTC))

 Not done MOS:OVERLINK says: "Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are usually not linked: / Everyday words understood by most readers in context (e.g., education, violence, aircraft, river) / Common occupations (e.g., accountant, politician, actor) / [...]" -- Hoary (talk) 13:12, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

• As I have told before also this article is not only read in UK and US but also in India. There are several people who can't understand the meaning of "physician" and "Philanthropist",so every time they need to google about these words. Do you think it's correct?

Thanks (223.230.151.127 (talk) 13:36, 3 January 2020 (UTC))

I am well aware that this article is read in India, and that some of its readers there may not know particular words within it. Philanthropist merely redirects to Philanthropy, which is a grotesquely long and tedious read for somebody who merely wants to know the meaning of the word "philanthropist". The appropriate tool: a dictionary. -- Hoary (talk) 23:28, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Instead of providing link of "physician" and "philanthropist" you are asking our people to memorize whole dictionary and then afterwards read the article. Just making fun of us. I think "talk pages" of the article are created to give advice. Wikipedia policy never tells that first look for dictionary and then come to read our articles.

(223.230.151.127 (talk) 01:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC))

I am asking Indian people to memorize a whole dictionary? I am making fun of Indian people? You are deluded. You are getting close to exhausting my patience; and I suspect that if the person dealing with you right now didn't happen to be me, then you would be exhausting the patience of somebody else. -- Hoary (talk) 02:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Hoary. I should have checked the talkpage. Time for me to move on too! Edwardx (talk) 11:21, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Edwardx (or anyone): You may wish to see this within my own talk page. -- Hoary (talk) 22:02, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit request 5 January 2019!

• Hi, one of our friends has removed Shamsheer Vayalil's parent(s) name column from infobox as well as word "philanthropist" from the leading line of the article. Please help in restoring these.

Thanks. (223.230.128.8 (talk) 16:43, 5 January 2020 (UTC))

 Not done The parents were removed from the infobox as they are not independently notable; I.e. there is not, and unlikely ever to be, a Wikipedia article about them. This was clearly explained in the edit summary... please read the page history to see more about individual edits. 'Philanthropist' was removed with this edit. If you disagree with the actions of the other editor involved please start a discussion with them; preferably here by pinging them or at their talk page. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

There is not enough to justify "philanthropist" in the lead. There are some personal pledges, but solid evidence of substantial philanthropy is lacking. Edwardx (talk) 18:57, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

• Awards section from the infobox is also removed. Please anyone restore that. (223.230.128.8 (talk) 18:17, 5 January 2020 (UTC))

 Not done Removed with this edit. 'Awards' is a valid infobox prarameter and the reason for removal is not clearly stated. Again, please discuss with the editor involved. (pinging Edwardx in case they wish to comment here). Eagleash (talk) 18:35, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

• @Edwardx: you have removed 'Awards' from infobox but didn't give reason behind it's removal. 'Award' is a valid infobox parameter. So, I think you must restore that also.

Thanks. (223.230.128.236 (talk) 18:56, 5 January 2020 (UTC))

The only one of the awards that is notable in the sense of having a Wikipedia article is the Pravasi Bharatiya Samman, but with 30 awarded every year it is difficult to justify having it in the infobox. Edwardx (talk) 18:58, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

@Edwardx: Sir, at least you should keep Pravasi Bharatiya Samman with its receiving year in the award parameter in infobox. Thanks. (223.230.128.236 (talk) 19:30, 5 January 2020 (UTC))

Atleast the "awards parameter" should be present in infobox with at least one "notable award and it's year of receiving".I also suggest the notable award name Pravasi Bharatiya Samman to be present in the award parameter (in infobox)

Thanks. (223.230.128.236 (talk) 06:28, 6 January 2020 (UTC))

Archive + edit request

IP and others I have moved old discussions into Talk:Shamsheer Vayalil/Archive 1. They looked complete. IP please continue to make the edit requests here on this page. Also a new editor left a message:

You had added degrees in the article's infobox (in alma mater column) on 1 June 2019. Your format was like this:

Alma mater: Kasturba Medical College, Manipal (MBBS) Sri Ramachandra Medical College and Research Institute, Chennai (MD)

• Please, help in restoring those degrees name as well as add Chennai beside Sri Ramachandra Medical College and Research Institute (in infobox)

I have not really kept up with this page, so not sure why it was removed. Thought it would be a good idea to have a discussion here before I added it back. pinging @Ankitroy1997. OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 20:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@OkayKenji: Probably because it's become badgering over minutae by a single-purpose IP editor (supposedly a pair of young brothers). See Special:Contribs/223.230.128.0/18 (there are edits to political and finance topics in the range that are clearly not related). —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@OkayKenji:Oh! I don't understand what to say? The same IP had left a message(1 day ago) on my talk page for adding award column in infobox. Then I went through the edit history and found all this. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 05:18, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Just making sure its ok with everyone if I add this back. OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 05:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@OkayKenji: I found myself dragged in this matter. Please guide me now what to do? (Ankitroy1997 (talk) 06:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC))

Yeah. I'm probably not the best person to ask but telling the IP to bring further requests to here was a good idea. If I remember correctly the IP editor likes to invite other editors to help edit this page, so you're not the only one...AlanM1 is much more experienced on Wikipedia though... OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 06:23, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@OkayKenji: the anon. IP asked me to add award column in infobox. Though the request is genuine(as per wikipedia rules)but I didn't do it or I say, I am afraid in doing this because adding anything in infobox is not an easy job. (Ankitroy1997 (talk) 06:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC))

OkayKenji, Ankitroy1997, the series of editors begged to do this or that to this article includes me. If anyone is wondering what is going on here, just skimread what's written above on this talk page. (Don't attempt to read it all: you'd fall asleep.) Don't rush to do anything to the article. (My own inclination would be to remove the bio infobox. The bio infobox in this article is no more useful than bio infoboxes normally are; that is, not at all.) -- Hoary (talk) 13:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: I can understand your situation, you are saying this in frustration but think peacefully .Removing bio infobox is not right (not sure what others think) because every article contains bio infobox. We get rough view of the article through bio infobox only. My opinion is a big "no".The best way is to protect the article page and stop answering their absurd requests. OR:

• They claimed to be Indian and I am Indian too. Should I explain them in my way to stop posting absurd request? I guess I'll convince them to stop. What say? :-)Ankitroy1997 (talk) 14:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

• Ankitroy1997, I observe this talk page placidly. (I was about to say that I was at peace, but somehow this figure of speech suggests imminent death.) Plenty of biographies (and other articles) do not contain infoboxes. When I create a biography I don't burden it with an infobox and it's rare that any other editor wants to add one. For certain kinds of article -- like comets (example) -- an infobox at the top right is clearly beneficial. For most, they are of no benefit, or anyway of none to me. Indeed, I think they degrade the article, in categorizing simplistically, exemplifying arbitrarily, inviting editors to "coat-rack", amplifying trivia, etc. As a user of this encyclopedia, I ignore them: I get my own rough view of an article from its opening paragraph. If the opening paragraph fails to provide this, then the opening paragraph cries out for improvement. -- Hoary (talk) 22:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

• Note After some discussion at the help desk Ankitroy1997 has added the one award to the i/bx. I have fmtd this (to help Ankitroy rather than IP eds) and left a note that if it is removed it should not be reinstated. Eagleash (talk) 15:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
• @Eagleash: I was told to thank you for your contribution to Shamsheer Vayalil article by "Ankitroy1997". I thanked him before you because I thought he made the changes but he told that all credits goes to you (Eagleash). So, many many thanks to you also. (106.207.45.103 (talk) 16:20, 14 January 2020 (UTC))

@Hoary: , @Eagleash: , @OkayKenji: do have a look on my talk page. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 07:19, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I had a look at it. Note to people using a succession of IP numbers and gently admonished by Ankitroy1997: It's stunningly obvious that you are Ankitroy1997. Please log in as, and use, this ID consistently from now on. (Or if you prefer to read a much longer version of what I'm saying, try Wikipedia:Sock puppetry.) -- Hoary (talk) 07:56, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: I generally log out my account after editing.If it is creating a problem then I'll definitely keep my account logged in from now onwards. Any more suggestions then leave it on my talk page. By the way thanks for pointing out my mistake. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 08:15, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

AGF, I don’t think the IPs (like 223.230.145.187) are Ankitroy1997. I mean the way you and the IPs edit seem different. And your response above does not admit SockPuppery. OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 20:07, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

His sudden wealth needs explaining

According to the article, after working for a year as a radiologist, he had enough money to buy himself a hospital. That needs explaining. And an explanation would be much more interesting than the long list of non-notable awards, which in my opinion should be deleted wholesale. Maproom (talk) 13:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Maproom: I'm although new but I went through this article.Please see reference 1 of the article you will definitely get your answer for your first question. Secondly,I may tell you that the non notable awards are removed from the article see edit history. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 13:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997, thank you for your explanation of his wealth. I think his wife and father-in-law should be mentioned in the article. There are still 12 non-notable awards in the list, only the Pravasi Bharatiya Samman is notable. Maproom (talk) 16:17, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Maproom: my dear friend, there was a heated discussion between an anon. IP and editors related to "awards". Many editors gave their opinion that only one award was non-notable which was " Stevie Award "(it was pay for promotion award). Rest all awards are ok and they can be kept. I think you also see edit history like I did (then I found all this information) . Ankitroy1997 (talk) 17:17, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997: I see a discussion which concluded that the "Stevie Award" was not notable and should be removed from the list. I see no consensus that the other twelve non-notable awards should be retained in the article. Maproom (talk) 17:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Maproom: I think I don't have any answer.According to me you should see various notable people articles on Wikipedia, I'm not going to take names. You'll find that there are 15+ awards which are non-notable but still they are in "awards paragraph" because we don't have any proof that they are actually notable or not. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 17:38, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ankitroy1997: It's very easy to find whether an award (or anything/anyone else) is "notable", in the sense that word is used in Wikipedia. You check whether there's a Wikipedia article about it. When I find non-notable people or things in lists that claim to be of "notable ...", I generally delete them. If you have some examples, and don't feel like deleting them yourself, please notify me. Maproom (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

My edits

I made the following edits to Shamsheer Vayalil for the stated reasons:

• Special:Diff/929426208 – → Awards and accolades: Fix ABLF cite for 2018 award, move last two items to top in keeping with descending date order of rest of list
• Special:Diff/929434310 – Copy-edit, grammar, etc. through → Career) – Additionally: added an {{As of}}; used correct names of institutions and degrees per their EP articles instead of unexplained pipelinks; removed excessive detail about locations of institutions unnecessary for disambiguation; more cite fixes; necessary maint tagging (cn and failed ver); CE for tone, flow, removal of duplicative prose, etc.
• Special:Diff/929498028 – → Awards and accolades: Removed "2011 – Honorary Stevie Award for Annual International Business" as neither the source ( http://www.stevieawards.com/pubs/iba/awards/408_2648_21072.cfm ), nor its archived version as of December 2011, mention VPS, Shamsheer, or Amanat. – The IP editor later explained at Special:Diff/929967166/929498216 that this was because the award was given to Lifeline Hospital, a related entity; however, I see now that they failed to recognize that the award winner was Mead Johnson Nutrition Company, while Lifeline Hospital was among the 9 "distinguished honorees"; Lifeline clearly did not "win" the Stevie award. Subsequent conversation by other users on the talk page achieved consensus that the award was not notable anyway.
• Special:Diff/930494171 – Format infobox to reduce wrapping, remove Stevie since it's not in the article (for now). How were these particular three awards chosen for the infobox and should they be added to/changed? 2-col refs and move commons link to new EL section. Remove duplicative " Award" from "Pravasi Bharatiya Samman Award". Are other awards to VPS or him personally (describe at top of section)? – Format changes included changing infobox bullet lists in |alma_mater=, |occupation=, |awards=, and |parents= parms since they take up precious horizontal space, which is why we don't typically use them. My reasoning was explained and referenced to documentation at Special:Diff/931925784/931916143.
• Special:Diff/931804304 – → top: Prevent one more line-wrap – Abbreviated United Arab Emirates to U.A.E. to prevent line-wrap in infobox
• Special:Diff/931881360 – → Early life: Added Chennai, India, and Boston – added these three locations back in after discussion on talk page, mostly as compromise to stop disruption as the IP user started to canvass and drag other victims into this time-sink.
• Special:Diff/931925314 – → Career: Add Abu Dhabi, UAE to SKMC and unlinked second mention – Added one more location for the same reason.

That's it. Other edits were done by others to change/remove info in the infobox, about which I have no opinion. I have no interest in doing anything else to this article, or burning any more time on this situation, as there is clearly no pleasing this (apparent) gang of users (they've claimed to be 12- and 14-year old brothers, but there are clearly others involved now). —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:04, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

This was prompted by the personal attack on my talk page. If there's anyone watching that would like to open an ANI/CU case, I'd appreciate it. As I started writing, I realize I don't have the will to do a decent, accurate, and concise job of it now, but think it's necessary as they continue to drag new victims in and soak up the time of anyone involved. I'd appreciate the help. Thanks. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:08, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

• I have left a warning message at the latest IPs TP. Wakari07... I'm sure you're delighted to be dragged into this again! Do you still have a list of the various IPs used? The one I started back last May when the disruption commenced is far from complete. Cheers Eagleash (talk) 01:17, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
  • @Eagleash: I sorted the contribs from the talk page to come up with the ranges mentioned at ANI. The many addresses in the 223 range were all over the place within that range, while there were only three addresses in the 106 range. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:15, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
  • @Eagleash: I posted the IP addresses on the WP:ANI topic. Wakari07 (talk) 23:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
    • @Wakari07: Thanks; hopefully, Admin. will be able to see exactly how these editors have behaved over the last 9 months. And thanks to AlanM1 too! Eagleash (talk) 23:53, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

At WP:ANI

Please see this at WP:ANI, and of course feel free to comment there. -- Hoary (talk) 02:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

You can see the discussion here in WP:ANI archive 1028. (As the blocked editor continues to create new user IDs, the discussion remains topical.) -- Hoary (talk) 07:46, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

As the sockpuppetry continues (I have blocked one new account just today), as do the sockpuppets' pleas for help on the talk pages of uninvolved editors, I'm now adding a pseudo-template to the top of this talk page. I haven't signed it, in order that experienced authors (those who aren't mere sockpuppets) will feel free to improve it and keep it up to date. -- Hoary (talk)

Have you been asked for help here?

If so, you aren't the first. Here's a list that I know is incomplete:

• Jun 2019 An IP asks Orville
• Jun 2019 An IP asks Arch dude
• 14 Jun 2019 An IP asks Lee Vilenski
• 01 Aug 2019 An IP asks OkayKenji
• 12 Aug 2019 An IP asks Eman235
• 16 Aug 2019 An IP asks Jayron32
• 19 Aug 2019 An IP asks Aranya
• 22 Aug 2019 An IP asks Engelhardt
• 24 Aug 2019 An IP asks GreenMeansGo
• 05 Sep 2019 An IP asks Dbfirs
• 19 Sep 2019 An IP asks ArakaneseRohingya
• 02 Dec 2019 An IP asks Arjayay
• 05 Dec 2019 An IP asks AlanM1
• 08 Dec 2019 An IP asks Hoary
• 10 Dec 2019 An IP asks DESiegel
• 11 Dec 2019 An IP asks Wakari07
• 11 Dec 2019 An IP asks Iman1981
• 11 Dec 2019 An IP asks Zain Ebrahim111
• 22 Dec 2019 An IP asks Sphilbrick
• 03 Jan 2019 An IP asks Kind Tennis Fan
• 04 Jan 2020 An IP asks Edwardx
• 06 Jan 2020 An IP asks Masumrezarock100
• 13 Jan 2020 An IP asks "Ankitroy1997" (i.e. himself)
• 13 Jan 2020 "Ankitroy1997" asks Titodutta
• 17 Jan 2020 "Ankitroy1997" asks Sanyam.wikime
• 21 Jan 2020 "Alpha rows" asks Arjayay (again)
• 22 Jan 2020 "Alpha rows" asks Nick Moyes
• 26 Jan 2020 "786 harsh life" asks Ngrewal1
• 27 Jan 2020 "786 harsh life" asks Party1967
• 28 Jan 2020 "786 harsh life" asks Authordom
• 31 Jan 2020 "786 harsh life" asks Mydreamsparrow

And that's without looking at questions posted in the Teahouse and perhaps elsewhere. A number of the links above, perhaps most of them, will gradually come not to work as expected, as people either shunt their old discussions to archives or share Ngrewal1's response. -- Hoary (talk) 08:42, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Not totally sure what can be done about it. Looks like they're just combing the archives of our helping forums and picking people at random. We can ask a friendly neighborhood CU to watchlist this page if they haven't already. May be UPE. May be just a particularly obsessive fan. At some point, "particularly obsessive" probably becomes a type of COI in it's on way at a certain level of disruption. GMG^talk 13:55, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure either. But I'd be surprised if he didn't return; and when he does return, I'd like to dissuade yet more people from wasting their time on him. -- Hoary (talk) 22:47, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

"the Teahouse and perhaps elsewhere"? There's no "perhaps" about it: at the Help desk, again and again. -- Hoary (talk) 00:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Also, see this, in Incident Archive 1028. -- Hoary (talk) 22:47, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Didn't take long: Angel white spell. (yes, the dot is part of the username). I mentioned it to Bbb23 before I saw we had a thread here. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 19:09, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, AlanM1. Here's an additional list. (I'm not signing it, so anybody will be free to add to it.) -- Hoary (talk) 23:28, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

• 02 Feb 2020 Angel white spell. asks Dharmadhyaksha
• 03 Feb 2020 Angel white spell. asks Padavalamkuttanpilla
• 06 Feb 2020 Angel white spell. asks Moheen
• 07 Feb 2020 Angel white spell. asks Govindaharihari
• 12:26, 20 February 2020 (UTC) Pardaehnndsvver asks DBigXray
• 07:17, 23 February 2020 (UTC) Lord Rama the eternal.. asks Favonian

I suggest that we add editnotices to both the article and the talk page: When anyone is about to edit, they're warned that any request they may be carrying out is likely to have come from a sockpuppet of a blocked user, and of course such sockpuppets should be reported or blocked but otherwise ignored. This is an unusual measure and I have therefore asked about it here at WP:AN. -- Hoary (talk) 04:47, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Tip of the hat to Ivanvector for proposing something similar for the article Consumers Distributing, and for wording it so well. I shamelessly plagiarize/adopt/adapt it, for:

If you have been invited by an IP editor or newly-registered account to edit this page, please note that the editor may be evading a block. Edits made on behalf of blocked or banned editors may be reverted and the account making the edit may be blocked. Please report all incidents on the article's talk page or the administrators' noticeboard.

That would be for the article. (Previously, I suggested an editnotice for this talk page too. If needed, this would have to be quite different.) Comments, anyone? -- Hoary (talk) 23:26, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: An excellent idea - nice and neutrally-worded. Would you be proposing that a template is made available for tagging affected articles via Twinkle? Could be useful, though potentially open to abuse. I like it. (COI declaration: I'm one of the suckers listed above!) Nick Moyes (talk) 23:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm just proposing it for use on this one article (in parallel with the use of the original, on an otherwise unrelated article). According to Wikipedia:Editnotice, most editors aren't able to add editnotices to articles. Anyway, I've no reason to think that this pattern of wheedling on the user talk pages of innocents is at all widespread (thank gods). -- Hoary (talk) 23:54, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

OK - that seems a reasoned approach. I've just left this alert for my fellow hosts at the Teahouse, and appreciate your efforts to collate the information presented here. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:02, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

The article now has an editnotice. -- Hoary (talk) 13:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Noticed another sockpuppet?

Noticed another sockpuppet? Please announce your discovery either here or at WP:ANI, and add {{Sockpuppet|Royankitkumar}} to the puppet's user page. -- Hoary (talk) 23:22, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Got 2409:4064:E84:570E:0:0:F24A:ED09 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) another IP asking at template talk:Infobox person to add information in the infobox. Just thought it was awefully suspicious. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 00:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Dr Shamsheer Vayalil.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 2 February 2020 (UTC)