A fact from Tatjana Gamerith appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 8 August 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Tatjana Gamerith and her husband, married for 60 years despite an age difference of 20 years, were awarded a prize for their work to combine art and nature?
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that the artist Tatjana Gamerith's (pictured) future husband, then 20, told her that he did not care that she was 20 older than him, and that they had been married for over 60 years? Source: Kunst, Natur und Schönheit
Interesting rich long life, on good sources, and I can read the German ones, no copyvio. - Sigh, I don't like the hook, don't like it being only focused on her being twice as old as her husband when they met, without any achievements, also I find the sequence of possessive, pictured, clause ... needlessly confusing, and further the tense of the last bit is wrong because it suggests the 60 years of happy marriage had already happened when he said that. In an article about her, she should be quoted ;) - Summary: if you want to stick to that fact alone, say that although she was twice as old as her future husband, they went on to be married for 60 years. But I'd prefer something different, such as their prize together. The pic is licensed and a good illustration, but is there a year to add to the caption? - In the article: it reads as if the prize was for her achievements, not their. I like your extra service of trying to translate the German refs, but the double meaning of "einfach zu leben" is missing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1: ... that the artist Tatjana Gamerith(pictured) and her husband, who was 20 years younger than her, devoted their 60 years of married life towards uniting art and nature?
Thank you, and I dropped the 's. Is "unite art and nature" I am the only one not to understand. Why "devoted"? Can I say I devote a year towards music? (learning English, you see?) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:50, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just a drive-by comment: Why not mention the prize in the hook, given that it was for their joint achievement? Something like "together with her husband who was 20 years younger was awarded a prize for their joint work"? Can't think of a precise hook wording atm, but I think that would preserve the uniqueness of their relationship and also point to her/their achievements (I would drop the 60 years of marriage). --LordPeterII (talk) 16:51, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2: ... that the artist Tatjana Gamerith(pictured) together with her husband who was 20 years younger was awarded a prize for their joint work to combine art and nature?
It's good, but I miss the 60 years, - perhaps more important than he 20 years younger, or can we have both? - We could drop "artist" which is said later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2a: ... that Tatjana Gamerith(pictured) and her husband who was 20 years younger had been married for over 60 years and were awarded a prize for their joint work to combine art and nature?
I considered it and found the grammar a bit awkward, - how is this:
ALT2b: ... that Tatjana Gamerith(pictured) and her husband, married for 60 years although he was 20 years younger, were awarded a prize for their work to combine art and nature?
I'm afraid I'm not loving the 20-years-younger part at all. Would we ever mention the age disparity if it were the other way around? —valereee (talk) 16:48, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why not. My grandfather was almost as much older than my grandmother, and the bride's mother was against the marriage, afraid her daughter would be a widow for a long time. They were married for more than 60 years as well. In that context, I think it's ok. It wouldn't be as the only thing said about the two. If you want to make it more neutral, you could say one partner was that much younger without a hint who, but I'd think it's a bit needlessly "fair". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Because if it were a man 20 years older than his wife we likely wouldn't even be mentioning it in either of their articles, and certainly wouldn't find it one of the more interesting or important things about him for using in his DYK hook. See Donald Trump (6000+ editors) and Melania Trump (1000+). No mention, in very very long articles. —valereee (talk) 22:11, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you understood what I meant, - sorry about being unclear. Without knowing who is the older one: a difference that high just makes it less likely that the marriage lasts so long. Is that clearer? In numbers: if 2 people get married, both 20, they can be married for 60 years with both being only 80. If one of them is already 40 at the time - whoever - that one must reach 100 to be married for 60 year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Show me a hook where we're calling out the fact the man was 20 years older than the woman as one of the more interesting or important things to know about him, and we can talk. I'm sorry, Gerda, I think your story about your grandparents is quite charming, and if that came across the tandem as a hook, I'd not object, but in general comments about the wife being 20 years older just feels sexist to me. We literally don't even (on a brief skim) seem to mention that fact in the articles for Donald and Melania Trump, that's how irrelevant it is when the man is older. But when the woman is older it's somehow interesting enough to be included in a 200-character description of the most interesting/surprising/important thing about this person? It might be interesting that she was married for 60 years even though she didn't marry until she was 40, but how does the age difference figure in that? It would actually be more surprising in the other direction: that someone was married for 60 years even though their spouse was 20 years older. —valereee (talk) 23:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think we are not talking about the same thing, but this weekend, I have no time. I hope the creator will manage a hook to please you. (... dropping the age difference altogether, or not saying who was older ...). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:43, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, and I'd be fine with a hook that said "she and her husband, despite an age difference of 20 years, were married for 60" or something. —valereee (talk) 11:10, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2c: ... that Tatjana Gamerith(pictured) and her husband, despite an age difference of 20 years, were married for 60 years, and were awarded a prize for their work to combine art and nature?
I'd prefer to turn it around:
ALT2d: ... that Tatjana Gamerith(pictured) and her husband, married for 60 years despite an age difference of 20 years, were awarded a prize for their work to combine art and nature?
Restoring ALT2c, which was accidentally removed and is what Gerda Arendt approved. Also removing Ashleyyoursmile's addition of a DYKmake credit for Gerda Arendt, which would invalidate her review, and is not appropriate in any event given her very modest edits to the article itself. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:23, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting rich long life, on good sources, and I can read the German ones, no copyvio. - Sigh, I don't like the hook, don't like it being only focused on her being twice as old as her husband when they met, without any achievements, also I find the sequence of possessive, pictured, clause ... needlessly confusing, and further the tense of the last bit is wrong because it suggests the 60 years of happy marriage had already happened when he said that. In an article about her, she should be quoted ;) - Summary: if you want to stick to that fact alone, say that although she was twice as old as her future husband, they went on to be married for 60 years. But I'd prefer something different, such as their prize together. The pic is licensed and a good illustration, but is there a year to add to the caption? - In the article: it reads as if the prize was for her achievements, not their. I like your extra service of trying to translate the German refs, but the double meaning of "einfach zu leben" is missing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
- better wording still welcome --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:29, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
