Template talk:Turkish elections

Presidential elections

All presidential elections should be listed. 2014 will be the first election where the people directly vote but that is no reason to dismiss all prior elections. Consider Template:United States presidential elections given how U.S. presidents are never elected by the general public. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 18:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The US template is only for presidential elections, and we have that for Turkey - {{Turkish presidential elections}}. The combined templates like this do not feature non-public elections. Number 57 19:03, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Exactly why do we have the 2014 election on this template then? Even the defunct senate elections are listed here. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Because the 2014 elections will be a public election. See for example {{Czech elections}} - the 2013 one was the first public election of the President. Number 57 19:12, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

You have edits there. you remove additions by others. Do you even have consensus for this? Because clearly you don't. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I also have edits on {{Russian elections}} and {{Soviet elections}} - in fact I created both of them - but you are happy to use those as reasons for other edits. Re consensus, any discussions on the subject have never resulted in indirect elections being added to these templates, so I guess you could say there is perhaps no consensus for them to be added, and as they weren't there to start with, they've remained off the templates. There are other editors who share this opinion though. Number 57 19:28, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

You cannot decide on inclusion criteria like this. There should be a broader discussion first. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

So I propose the restoration of the presidential elections. Italic is future elections perhaps bold or some other font gimmick can be used for indirect elections. Ideally I would like to see all major political elections and referendums in one nav template. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 23:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. Only public elections should be on this template. Number 57 10:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

So you are not open to compromise or discussion of any kind? Why must it ONLY be direct elections? When and where was this agreed? -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 21:30, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, a compromise would mean including them, which is not standard practice. If you want to open this to wider discussion, then by all means please start a discussion on WP:Elections and referendums. Number 57 11:48, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree with A Certain White Cat. For example, Template:United States Senate elections does not use this "convention" and includes both indirect and direct elections, both delineated from one another. I've started a discussion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums#Turkish elections template, since Number 57 seems to be quite zealous about debilitating conventions. Ithinkicahn (talk) 18:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Ottoman empire

Ottoman Empire and Turkey are two different countries. They don't even share capitals, language, laws, governmental structure. Furthermore succession is not a valid reason to merge templates as for instance Template:Russian elections and Template:Soviet elections are separate. A lot of countries succeeded the Ottoman Empire as visible on the infobox itself. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 18:57, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I have split the Ottoman elections to the template you made and added a see also. However, we should also add that "see also" section to the templates of other countries that were in the Ottoman Empire. Can we make a list here? I'll start with Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Jordan and Iraq. Number 57 19:11, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

A see also is fine but I really do not like how the Russian template links to the soviet template. I would suggest linking to the Wikipedia article itself. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

If we have the article Elections in the Ottoman Empire, then that would be fine. Until then, there isn't much choice. Number 57 19:17, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I can create a List of Elections in the Ottoman Empire with trivial ease. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:19, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually I went ahead and created the stub Elections in the Ottoman Empire -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:28, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Good work. So what other templates do we need to add this to. I know the Ottoman Empire lost countries like Bulgaria and Egypt around the time of the first elections, but not sure of the exact dates... Number 57 19:30, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Election results and etc aren't even on the article nor are the constitutional ratifications. Even the article on Turkish elections is a bullet list. I am inclined to convert it to a table. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 19:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The template lists the following as the successors to the Ottoman Empire, and I followed the succession tree. A good number soon after ceased to exist and new ones created. As of today even the below list is a "work in progress" in some countries maybe.

• Ottoman Empire
  • Turkish Provisional Government
    • Modern day Turkey
  • First Hellenic Republic

    Complicated structure in successions - goes back and forth between each other between certain dates

    • Kingdom of Greece
    • (Second) Hellenic State
    • Greek military junta of 1967–74
      • Modern day Greece
  • Khedivate of Egypt
    • Sultanate of Egypt
      • Republic of Egypt
        • United Arab Republic
          • Modern day Egypt
          • Modern day Syria
        • Republic of Sudan
          • Democratic Republic of Sudan
            • Modern day Sudan
              • Modern day South Sudan
    • Italian Libya
      • British Military Administration (Libya)
        • Emirate of Cyrenaica
          • Kingdom of Libya (below)
      • Fezzan-Ghadames (French Administration)
        • Kingdom of Libya
          • Libyan Arab Republic
            • Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
              • National Transitional Council
                • Modern day Libya
  • Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina
    • State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs
      • Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)
        • Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
          • Modern day Croatia
          • Modern day Slovenia
          • Modern day Macedonia
          • Modern day Bosnia and Herzegovina
          • Serbia and Montenegro
            • Modern day Serbia
            • Modern day Montenegro
      • Kingdom of Italy
        • Italian Social Republic (was taken over by Italian Republic (below))
        • Modern day Italian Republic
        • Vatican City
        • Free Territory of Trieste (Administered by the UNSC, was divided among Italian Republic (above) and Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (above))
        • Ethiopian Empire
          • Italian East Africa
            • East African Campaign (World War II)#Somalia & Eritrea
              • State of Somaliland (merged with Somali Republic below)
              • Trust Territory of Somalia (merged with Somali Republic below)
              • Ethiopian Empire (below)
          • Federation of Ethiopia and Eritrea
          • Derg
            • People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
              • Transitional Government of Ethiopia
                • Modern day Ethiopia
                • Modern day Eritrea
        • French Fourth Republic
          • Modern day France
        • Kingdom of Greece (above)
        • Trust Territory of Somalia
          • Somali Republic
            • Somali Democratic Republic
              • Transitional National Government
                • Transitional Federal Government
                  • Modern day Somalia
        • French protectorate of Tunisia
          • Kingdom of Tunisia
            • Modern day Tunisia
        • Kingdom of Libya (above)
        • Kingdom of Egypt (above)
        • People's Socialist Republic of Albania
          • Modern day Albania
        • Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (above)
  • Emirate of Diriyah
    • Back to Ottoman Empire (as Eyalet of Egypt)
      • Hejaz Vilayet (Restructuring in Ottoman Empire when parts were scened from Eyalet of Egypt)
        • Kingdom of Hejaz
          • Transjordan
            • Modern day Jordan
            • Modern day Saudi Arabia (Al Jawf Province was ceded to Saudi Arabia)
        • Kingdom of Nejd and Hejaz (below)
      • Khedivate of Egypt (above)
      • Emirate of Nejd
        • Emirate of Jabal Shammar
          • Sultanate of Nejd (below)
          • Emirate of Nejd and Hasa
            • Sultanate of Nejd
              • Kingdom of Nejd and Hejaz
                • Modern day Saudi Arabia
        • Trucial States
          • Modern day United Arab Emirates
  • Provisional Government of Albania
    • Principality of Albania
    • Republic of Central Albania
      • Principality of Albania
        • Albanian Republic
          • Albanian Kingdom
            • Albanian Kingdom (1939–43) (Protectorate and dependency of Italy)
              • Albanian Kingdom (1943–44) (Puppet state of Nazi Germany)
                • People's Socialist Republic of Albania
                  • Modern day Albania
                • Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (above)
        • Republic of Mirdita (brief unrecognized existence for about a year)
        • Italian protectorate over Albania (not sure if Albanian Kingdom (1939–43) and Italian protectorate over Albania are the same thing which would mean we have two articles on the same single country)
          • Principality of Albania (above)
        • Autonomous Albanian Republic of Korçë (ceased to exist, article isn't clear but probably merged with Principality of Albania above)
        • Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus
          • Kingdom of Greece (above)
  • Kingdom of Romania
    • Socialist Republic of Romania
      • Modern day Romania
    • Soviet Union (I am not going to draw the tree for this one)
  • Principality of Bulgaria
    • Kingdom of Bulgaria
      • People's Republic of Bulgaria
        • Modern day Bulgaria
  • British Cyprus
    • Cyprus
      • Cypriot National Guard coup
        • Modern day Cyprus
        • Modern day Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (mostly unrecognized except by Turkey above)
  • French Algeria
    • Modern day Algeria
    • Italian Libya (above)
  • French Tunisia
    • Kingdom of Tunisia
      • Modern day Tunusia
  • Sheikhdom of Kuwait
    • Modern day Kuwait
  • OETA (Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)
    • Mandatory Palestine
      • Transjordan (above)
      • Modern day Israel
      • All-Palestine Government
        • Occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt
          • Modern day Israel (above)
      • Jordanian occupation of the West Bank
        • Modern day Israel (above)
    • Arab Kingdom of Syria
      • State of Aleppo
        • State of Syria (1924–30)
          • Syrian Republic (1930–58) (below)
      • State of Damascus
        • State of Syria (1924–30)
          • Syrian Republic (1930–58) (below)
      • Jabal Druze State
        • Syrian Republic (1930–58)
    • Alawite State
      • Syrian Republic (1930–58)
        • United Arab Republic (above)
        • Hatay State
          • Merged into modern day Turkey (above)
    • Greater Lebanon
      • Modern day Lebanon
  • Italian North Africa
    • British Military Administration (Libya) (above)
    • Kingdom of Egypt (above)
    • Fezzan-Ghadames (French Administration) (above)
    • French protectorate of Tunisia (above)
  • Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen
    • Yemen Arab Republic
      • Modern day Yemen (formed after merging with South Yemen which is made out of different parts of Ottoman Empire which saw many transitional entities)

Just a quick summary :P -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 23:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The next question is which of these territories were under Ottoman control when elections took place - i.e. between 1877 and 1920. Number 57 11:49, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't quite understand. Partitioning of the Ottoman Empire is an article on its own. This is how the map changed more or less since just before WW1 (say we pick 1877 as the cut-off date) all the way to today. Successions came after successions and the templates should follow this tree more or less - at least when the countries have elections. Albania seems to have among the more complex series of successions. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 17:05, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

The Empire lost territory over time. We only need to include the See also on templates of countries that were part of the Empire during the period it held elections. Hope that makes sense? Number 57 10:24, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

All of the listed was ceded during or after the empire held the first elections. I am thinking of having a broader linkage between the templates as countries rise and fall during the near history. Like how Ottoman Empire, USSR, Yugoslavia became many new countries with their fall. I basically liked your idea on USSR/Russia templates and I think such linking would benefit more voting templates. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 20:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Cool. I have done it on other templates where states resulted from breakups - see e.g. {{Serbian elections}}, or as an alternative (where several states came together), {{South African elections}}.

United Arab Republic is certainly another interesting anomaly in the mix. Likewise Yemen. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 23:51, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Re the UAR, there were no elections that took place during the period before Syria left (there was a simultaneous referendum in both countries on establishing the UAR, but at that point they were separate countries). For examples like Yemen (and Tanzania), the countries that merged to form the modern country are both included on the template on separate rows. Probably would have done that for South Africa if there hadn't been so many predecessor states. Number 57 11:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Indeed a template should handle the referendums. UAR never had any elections of any kind as long as it existed? No elections in the predecessor countries? I think election templates should explain succession to a degree. At least state which country was before this one - even if there were no elections. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 21:34, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

But the referendums were held whilst the two were separate countries. During the united period, there were no elections or referendums. Number 57 11:52, 11 August 2013 (UTC)