Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohsin Ali (fashion designer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 12:33, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mohsin Ali (fashion designer)

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Has been tagged for 2 years-with nothing indicating how this guy is notable. Wgolf (talk) 03:17, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He's not. Delete. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 03:37, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Makes no claim to notability. GoldenRing (talk) 04:43, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:19, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:19, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:19, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Hmm. He's interviewed by Hilary Alexander here. Highbeam pulls up an article from Fader magazine about his collaboration with the luggage company Globe Trotter where he is the headline focus. Another Highbeam article from Dec 2013 titled "Pakistan Fashion Is Looking Past 'Bombs and Burqas' Tag" has some good commentary on his work generally which notes that as a Hazara, he is the subject of a "targeted minority" - so we might need to be cautious here. I also found this cached on Google from the Express Tribune, an article dated 2011. So I am seeing some international coverage in the British and Pakistani press. There's a significant namecheck in a blog from the British Council here where an expert in the field specifically names him twice as someone significant. I see she is going to give a lecture (for the Contemporary South Asian Youth Cultures and Fashion Symposium) on the subject of "Dress and Fashion as Resistance and Self-Expression" in a couple weeks, with Mohsin Ali as one of her focuses. I'm inclined to think that the fact he's receiving such focused attention, particularly from experts and specialists in such a specific area, isn't to be sneezed at. It's not massive coverage, but IMO it is very good quality coverage which indicates that he is highly respected by people whose opinions count for something, rather than bloggers and promoters. Mabalu (talk) 17:51, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

* Leaning Keep - Okay, after taking a few days to dither back and forth over all this, I think it may just be borderline WP:TOOSOON. I am essentially undecided, but I feel that he's just tantalisingly, frustratingly, skirting the definite notability barrier. There ARE two very good sources - the Express Tribune one from 2011 (now with a proper URL) and the 2013 Pakistani fashion article.

I also looked for some more sources. Although this is on a blog, the blog itself is a high quality one promoted by the British Fashion Council and the blogger, João Paulo Nunes, has a good reputation for fashion and art based journalism. There is plenty of fashion show coverage in - generally quite lightweight, but regular ongoing coverage and not just in blogs. To my surprise, I even got recent hits on Google News - this and this on Google News - both making a point to mention that Ali had joined Sana Safinaz as a designer. One might be dismissed as a passing mention, two mentions in two separate good quality publications is certainly worth a raised eyebrow, although both are by the same journalist.

In addition, there's the academic backing - if the papers presented at the symposium are published afterwards, then that will firmly establish Mohsin Ali's notability beyond doubt. Mabalu (talk) 12:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Question Mabalu, could you explain to me why writing a paper or giving a lecture in a symposium, even if published, is a proof of notability? Normally for academics we don;t even include such publications in the article because they are too minor, and very rarely get true peer review. I don;t see why it proves anything for anyone else, either. DGG ( talk ) 23:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as an academic/fashion historian, I'd certainly find it very significant if someone was singled out for discussion in such a presentation or lecture - particularly given the focus of the symposium in question. He attracts attention for his cultural background and political elements - and because he references these in his collections and work. The two sources above say as much. In this case, I think a published academic paper that in-depth describes, assesses, and discusses his work with focus on these aspects will give the last nudge required to cross the barrier. Mabalu (talk) 00:41, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, if a symposium is held on his work, it will certainly be significant. But this seems to be a single paper in a symposium; even that might well be significant, but from the reference you cite, it seems to be a paper about a number of people not just him. DGG ( talk ) 17:23, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.