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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:49, 23 December 2017 [1].

Knuckles' Chaotix

[edit]
Nominator(s): JOEBRO64 19:53, 27 October 2017 (UTC), TarkusABtalk 23:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nipples the Enchilada! Totally not Sonic! Three other pointless characters! C-3P0 and R2-D2! The dynamic duo of TarkusAB and TheJoebro64 present: Sonic On the 32X Without Sonic! Anyway, after Tarkus and I completely re-wrote this article from scratch, correcting many long-time inaccuracies and giving it a smooth prose, we successfully brought it to GA-status. It previously appeared on the main page in the DYK column, and has just undergone a copyedit. I believe it can stand among our best articles now, as it's the internet's most complete resource on this game. It's an obscure game so it wasn't easy finding sources but we pulled it off in the end. Enjoy! JOEBRO64 19:53, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: I've added myself as co-nominator after JoeBro's approval since I helped bring this article to GA and will help with the FAC. I will add that I believe we found every piece of information on this game covered by RSs. Since it has never been re-released, and was on a 1990s console that was a commercial/critical failure, it remains relatively obscure and was hard to find information for. TarkusABtalk 23:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Reviewing images
  • File:Knuckles' Chaotix Coverart.png: License, (boilerplate) rationale and use seem OK to me.
  • File:32X Chaotix.png: The use rationale seems questionable to me: We already have the cover to identify the game, and the rationale needs to be clearer about what is being illustrated.
  • Improved the purpose rationale.
  • File:Sonic Crackers shot.png: Not sure that this needs an image to illustrate. Maybe it needs a better explanation how the understanding of the article topic would be harmed by its absence.
  • I'd argue that this image is justified because the fact that it was originally Sonic Crackers and that it had Sonic and Tails is a really important part of the game's development. I've updated the purpose of use to reflect this.
ALT text everywhere. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: I've gone and improved the purpose rationales and responded above. Thanks for reviewing. JOEBRO64 11:12, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Aoba47
  • In this sentence (The game featured Sonic and Tails, and experimented with the ring force bond physics), I would add “developers” in front of the verb “experimented” as I am not sure that the verbiage really matches up with the present noun “The game”.
    • Reworded a bit; I think it looks better now.
  • Do you need to clarify that that the 32X is an add-on for the Sega Genesis to avoid a potential misreading of the 32X as its own platform or entity.
    • Yeah, I've clarified it.
  • For this sentence (Some characters and concepts introduced in Knuckles' Chaotix later featured in other Sonic games and media), I think that you need “were” in front of the phrase “later featured”.
    • Done.
  • In this phrase (game that shares the same basic gameplay elements that defined earlier entries in the Sonic series), I would add a link to the main article on the Sonic series/franchise as this is the first time it is mentioned in the body of the article.
    • Done,
  • In this phrase (due to their slow and destructive nature), I would substitute “and” with “or”.
    • Done.
  • Could “Chaos Rings” be linked with Chaos Emeralds? This is more of a clarification question, but the two ideas seems pretty closely intertwined with one another.
    • The Chaos Rings are basically Chaos Emeralds in this game, so I've link to them.
  • In this sentence (Power-ups are placed throughout the attractions providing players with rings, shields, and speed shows, among other boons.), do you think that a link for the word “Power-ups” would be beneficial?
    • Yep. Done.
  • This is more of a clarification question, but what is meant by this part (each level changes to a specific time of day)? Do you mean a day-night system, or that it changes to different types during the day (i.e. morning, noon, etc.)? I think some clarification here would be helpful if possible.
    • It changes to a different type of day; I've hopefully clarified this.
  • In this sentence (Before entering an attraction, the player begins in the Attraction Information Center, which acts as a hub world. Here, the player can choose a partner and an attraction to enter, and see which attractions they have already completed.), there is quite a bit of repetition of the word “attraction”, and I would advise trying to avoid that.
    • I've removed the first and last uses of attraction.
  • I think that the following sentence (In the bonus levels, the player is free falling and can pick up power-ups as they fall.) can be revised to read better. The repetition of the word falling seems a little weird to me.
    • Changed last "fall" to "proceed".
  • In this phrase (in the original Sonic the Hedgehog's scrapped sound test option), I would include the year in which the original game was released.
    • Done.
  • I am not sure about the phrase “as did the 32X platform”. Is an add-on considered a platform?
    • Technically, yes, it's considered separate as it had its own library.
  • For this sentence (The game's presentation was met with divided opinions.), the references need to be put in the correct order.
    • Done.
  • I do not think that IGN should be in italics.

Great work with this article. Once my comments are addressed, I will support this for promotion. Aoba47(talk) 21:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Responded above. I hope I've clarified everything. JOEBRO64 22:50, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@WhatamIdoing: Can you explain how it doesn't comply? The use of the template appears in line with standard use in WP:VG. TarkusABtalk 12:07, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth I don't see anything wrong with the template either. JAGUAR  20:56, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think a lot of people are unfamiliar with this part of the MOS, but FAs are supposed to comply with every page of it, so I thought you'd like to know about it.
To make an accessible table, when there's a header cell that tells you want to expect in the first column, then that header cell should be marked as scope="col". AFAICT, the template isn't doing that at all. I assume that the template is older than the guideline, but, still, it should probably be brought up to date. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:03, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK well it sounds like you have an issue with the template programming. That's out of our control. I looked at the table and believe the headers for the columns are properly "scoped" for accessibility. Maybe bring this up at Template talk:Video game reviews, I don't think a FAC is the right place for this. TarkusABtalk 05:25, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Jaguar
  • It would be nice if the infobox image had a caption. Is it North American cover art for example?
    • Added a caption.
  • "but rather another internal development team at Sega. Development on the game can be traced back to a 1994 internal prototype" - repetition of internal. I think you can safely lose the second instance as "1994 prototype" sounds just fine on its own
    • Done.
  • " the game itself has not been re-released except for a brief period through GameTap in the 2000s" - '2000s' sounds quite vague here, try late 2000s perhaps?
    • Changed to "mid-2000s".
  • "However, a reviewer for Next Generation" - I'd change this to However, a reviewer from Next Generation
    • Done.
  • "IGN called the level design simplistic, calling it bland and seemingly unfinished" - repetition
    • Changed the first "called" to "considered".
  • Ref 19 (CVG) and ref 30 (GamePro) are missing publishers

The prose is polished and I was impressed with the flow of the reception section, though I'm still unsure about personifying publications. Good work with this, once all of my minor quibbles are dealt with I'll be happy to support. JAGUAR  21:01, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jaguar: Thank you for your comments! I hope I've resolved them. JOEBRO64 21:10, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for addressing them. I'll be happy to lend my support now! This article is well written and quite comprehensive for its subject matter. I couldn't find many issues with it. JAGUAR  21:27, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Wani

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I'll be performing a source review as requested by the nominator. Wani (talk) 22:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any links to scans I can use to check these sources, or nah?
They are collected here: [2] TarkusABtalk 00:59, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. Wani (talk) 01:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@TarkusAB: Hey, is Ref 5 included in the link? I can find Issues 29 and 30 for Mean Machines, but I can't find 32. Wani (talk) 01:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That one is here: [3] TarkusABtalk 12:04, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can I get a link for Ref 24 (Xbox World) as well? Wani (talk) 05:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Joe do u have this one? I don't. TarkusABtalk 06:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@TarkusAB and Wani: That one is here. JOEBRO64 23:43, 4 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 4: I didn't see any mentions about the game's plot in those two pages (i.e. source content doesn't match article prose).
  • Ref 5: Reference is just missing page numbers (14-18).
  • Ref 7: I'd probably change the date formatting for consistency, since almost all of the other sources appear to use month/day/year.
Don't forget to change accessdate and archivedate formats as well. Wani (talk) 02:32, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done. JOEBRO64 11:11, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Need to change your date formats again. Wani (talk) 05:50, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 11, 12: Again, are these sites reliable enough for use? I'm just comparing to WP:VG/RS, so when stuff pops up that's not listed there, I'm not sure how flexible I should be (especially for an FAC).
  • Ref 15: No name or date parameters (James Newton/June 23, 2011). Nintendo Life should be listed under website parameter, not publisher.
  • Ref 21: Repeat of Ref 7.
  • Ref 22: No date parameter (January 6, 2014). Author last name needs minor fix as well (Dargenio → D'Argenio).
  • Ref 23: Put GameSpy in website parameter.
  • Ref 28: Change date and archivedate formats. Also, the source speculates Tails might have been intended to appear in the ending, not necessarily as a playable character, so the source isn't really supporting the article prose.
    • Done. It does say that he was intended to be in the game as a playable character: At one point during development, Tails was intended to be a playable character. He was only partially completed and had most of his assets stripped from the game. ... In earlier versions of the game, [he] can fly (as elements of Tails are still within the game at this point). JOEBRO64 12:29, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my bad. I didn't bother to read further down. Wani (talk) 14:41, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 35: Needs date (July 10, 2007).
  • Ref 36: Reference title is wrong (Gamasutra – The Art & Business of Making Games → GameTap Gets New Licensees, Officially Launches). Also, website parameter just needs a minor adjustment (www.gamasutra.com → Gamasutra).
Actually, going back a little, Ref 12 needs the same change as well (www.the-nextlevel.com → The Next Level). Wani (talk) 15:16, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done. JOEBRO64 20:59, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 38: Repeat of Ref 1.
Maybe do this one last, since the reference numbers will change for the ones below. Wani (talk) 18:50, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done. JOEBRO64 20:59, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've pretty much looked through all of them, which was a lot quicker than I thought it'd be. There's some sources left that I'm having trouble finding (mainly reviews), so if you guys could provide me the links so I can check them, that'd be very helpful. I'll list them below. Wani (talk) 18:42, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Sonic Heroes". Xbox World. Future Publishing (2): 36.
  • "Knuckles' Chaotix review". GameFan. DieHard Gamers Club. 3 (5). May 1995.
  • "Review Crew: Knuckles' Chaotix". Electronic Gaming Monthly. Ziff Davis (70): 34. May 1995.
  • New Games Cross Review: カオティクス. Weekly Famicom Tsūshin. No.332. Pg.31. April 28, 1995.
  • "ProReview: Knuckles Chaotix". GamePro. IDG (81): 62. June 1995.
  • "Knuckles Chaotix". Next Generation. Imagine Media (6): 104. June 1995.
@Wani: All done. I'll try to find those other magazines. JOEBRO64 20:59, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Wani: I wasn't able to find the full Next Generations, GameFan, and GamePro reviews, but this website has a short section from each of them. JOEBRO64 20:24, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@TheJoebro64: Sorry for the delayed response. As far as sources go, I have no more outstanding concerns, so I'll throw in my support for this FAC. Wani (talk) 06:36, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: Is this good to go? JOEBRO64 20:11, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ceranthor
  • "a collection of characters known as the Chaotix." - brief description here of the group for unfamiliar readers
    • Made it clearer.
  • "six Chaos Rings." - same note as above
    • Done.
  • "Gameplay is similar to earlier Sonic games," - I think this should be more elaborate, and assumes that the reader knows more than the average reader about Sonic games
    • Elaborated, using info about the basic gameplay.
  • "he concept was moved to the more powerful 32X add-on" - more powerful?
    • Reworded a bit.
  • "The story follows the group's efforts to save a mysterious island from Doctor Robotnik and Metal Sonic, who are using its magical Chaos Rings for their evil plans.[4]:2" - Chaos Rings, which *insert their purpose*, for their evil plans
  • "the fifth ends in a boss fight with Robotnik" - Robotnik, a *insert description here*.
    • Done.
  • "Collecting all Chaos Rings unlocks the best ending, in which Sonic and Tails make cameo appearances.[7]" - what's indicated by the best ending?
    • The Chaotix show up with Sonic and Tails and it's shown they stopped Robotnik. I've clarified that.
  • "Development of Knuckles' Chaotix began in early 1994 as an engine test, Sonic Crackers,[b] " - think you should clarify that Sonic Crackers is the name
I think this is clear as is, especially as it's italicised as a title, and adding something like "an engine test titled Sonic Crackers", would just be an unnecessary word. Popcornduff (talk) 05:19, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded.
  • "directors Masahide Kobayashi, Atsuhiko Nakamura, Naohisa Nakazawa, producers Hiroshi Aso, Makoto Oshitani, Mike Larsen, and artist Takumi Miyakewas." - semicolons between groups
    • Done.
  • "and the project was titled Knuckles' Ringstar, later renamed Knuckles' Chaotix.[18][19]" - grammatically the last bit doesn't make sense; it should read "and was later renamed" or "; it was later renamed"
    • Used your first suggestion.
  • "The prototype ROM image can downloaded and played with emulators.[10]" - Missing a "be"
    • Done.
  • "These characters have been dubbed "The Chaotix" in retrospect.[26]" - does this include all five of them? It's a little unclear
    • It's Mighty (though we rarely see him), Espio, Vector, and Charmy. I've clarified this.
  • "A complex palette system was implemented, allowing each level to load a unique palette." - redundant to say palette twice in the same sentence
    • Fixed.

I'll post some more comments in a bit. I don't think the prose is quite ready yet. ceranthor 22:53, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Vector the Crocodile was reintroduced after being designed to appear in the original Sonic the Hedgehog's (1991) scrapped sound test option" - This is incomprehensible to me as a general reader. I think "after being designed to appear" should be "after appearing in...", and what is a sound test option?
    • He was never in the final game. He was designed to be in it but never was. I've cleaned this up.
  • "The game also features two new characters: Espio the Chameleon, whose color changes subtly while he moves to demonstrate the technical capabilities of the 32X console," - I feel like this is a bit crufty, and might be better as a footnote
    • I think this is fine as it is; it's the only information we have on his creation.
      • Does the source explicitly say this? It reads like original research
        • It does not. The source reads "His USP (?) was the way his colour pulsated as you played — about the best special effect the awful Mega Drive 32X could muster up." All it is saying is that his color changes were by use of the 32X's power, but is doesn't say it was made "to demonstrate" the system's power. Also the phrase seems out of place, sandwiched between Vector and Charmy's origins. I have removed it. TarkusABtalk 01:28, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "With the enhanced features of the 32X," - such as?
    • Reworded.
  • "With the enhanced features of the 32X, the developers were given more freedom compared to previous games.[30] To take advantage of the hardware, several levels feature dynamic sprite-scaling effects, and the special stages were rendered with 3D polygons.[2] A complex palette system was implemented, allowing each level to load a unique palette.[5] The music was composed by Junko Siratsu and Mariko Nanba.[14]

Knuckles' Chaotix was released in North America on April 20, 1995,[31] and the following day in Japan as Chaotix.[32] It was released in Europe in June that year.[33] From 2005, it was available for a few years for macOS and Microsoft Windows via the subscription service GameTap.[34][35][36] The game is a valuable collector's item due to the 32X's commercial failure.[37]" - Far too much passive voice. Needs copyediting.

Copyedited and reworded.
  • " whereby Tails would get lost off-screen, they felt the physics were "clunky" and took time to get used to." - Don't think the sentence should end on an unnecessary preposition; reword instead.
That's a necessary proposition, though... Popcornduff (talk) 05:19, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Either way, the sentence needs to be copyedited. ceranthor 01:03, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Rewritten TarkusABtalk 03:35, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is it, but I may add a few more comments once these have been addressed. ceranthor 01:00, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ceranthor: I think I've resolved everything, and responded above. Popcornduff rebutted two of your comments, and I agree with him. JOEBRO64 13:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Replied to a few that I don't think have been fully remedied yet. I will look again tomorrow and if I'm satisfied, I'll be happy to support. Thanks for the timely response. ceranthor 01:03, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Critics found the tethering physics cumbersome, although some appreciated Sega's attempt to innovate in the series, and criticized the level desig" - too many ideas in this sentence, and it doesn't read smoothly as a result
  • "team[11][12][13] including: directors Masahide Kobayashi, Atsuhiko Nakamura, Naohisa Nakazawa; producers Hiroshi Aso, Makoto Oshitani, Mike Larsen; artist Takumi Miyakewas; and young members of the staff who had worked on Sonic CD (1993)." - is the colon necessary?

Otherwise, support. ceranthor 15:32, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comments: This has four supports but looking through I see quite a few prose issues which make me wonder how carefully 1a has been looked at. For example, "Knuckles' Chaotix, however, introduces a partner system whereby the player character is tethered to another with "ring force", producing rubber band-like physics" is a little clunky and I'm not too sure what "producing rubber band-like physics" means. "Development can be traced back to Sonic Crackers, a 1994 prototype for the Sega Genesis featuring Sonic and Tails, with which the developers experimented with the ring force tether" is also quite hard to understand. "The partner mechanic offers actions" is also a little tricky for the general reader. None of these issues are enough to make me want to oppose or recuse, but I think this needs a last copy-edit from someone, and I'd like another prose review before we promote. (In passing, the reception section looks very good to me) Sarastro (talk) 12:48, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I performed another copy edit. TarkusABtalk 23:06, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Gameplay is similar to earlier Sonic games; players must complete each level while collecting rings and defeating enemies.". Should that be a colon?
  • "The game has been considered the last classic game of the Sonic series and a declining point for it." Passive voice is coy, even here in the lead where not much detail can appear. What is a "declining point"? You mean already it shows decline, or it's the high point after which there has been a decline?
  • "This tether behaves like a rubber band and must be handled appropriately to maneuver the characters through levels."—you may as well write "through the six levels".
  • "Knuckles' Chaotix is a side-scrolling platform game" at the start of the first section—almost identical wording at the very opening.
  • "boost"—can that be an intransitive verb? Check, please.
  • "... level.[6] Bonus levels are hidden throughout the levels, and can also be triggered by finishing a level with ...". Pity four of them so close.
  • "Collecting all Chaos Rings unlocks the best ending, in which Sonic and Tails are seen with the Chaotix, who have freed the island from Robotnik."—maybe "preferred ending"? What do you call "best"? "who have", is which set of people (plural)?
    • There are two endings in the game; the "bad" ending is seen if you don't have the rings, but the "good" ending is seen if you do. I've changed to "good" in quotations. JOEBRO64 11:17, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "all the Chaotix members"—why not drop "the"? Or you can add "of".

It's a bit of a yawn, but ok I guess. Tony (talk) 08:33, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Tony1: I hope I've addressed your concerns. Responded above. JOEBRO64 20:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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