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Opeth

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I've listed this article for peer review because I have been working on it for the last week and looks much better than before. It doesn't look like there are a whole lot of citations but it is very well sourced from a biography written by the band's mainman. I want this article to be featured really soon, so please add anything you notice, give me all the crap you see please. Thank you, —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 05:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

M3tal H3ad

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M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Brandt Luke Zorn

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I'm not quite done yet, but I jut want to save what I've reviewed so far rather than keep you waiting. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 19:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please let me know if I missed anything, I'm pretty sure I covered it all. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 00:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

J Milburn

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I haven't read the other reviews, so sorry if I cover similar material.

  • Personal niggle, but I'm not big on citations in lead sections. Remember that anything said in the lead should also be said somewhere else, so unless it is a direct quote or there are potential BLP concerns, I avoid cites in the lead. The guidelines are purposefully vague, but seem to disapprove of that huge batch of sources that you have used- see this section for more information. J Milburn (talk) 18:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "word Opet, from" This is a bloody stupid guideline if you ask me, but 'Opet' should be in italics, as explained here.
  • "Opeth was the location of" You just said it was derived from the word Opet, not Opeth. Is one a typo?
Done, yeah it was originally Opet, thay added an "h". —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need the italics on the second instance of the word- at that point, you are not talking about it as a word, but as the nation. J Milburn (talk) 10:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Opeth recieved great fan reception on this tour." You can't cite something like that to the band themselves- of course they're gonna say they got a great reception. Personally, I would remove it, but you could perhaps say "the band recieved a better reception than they expected" or something akin.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was on vacation in Brazil" This is an article about Europe, it should use British English. Trust me, we don't use the word 'vacation'. We call it a holiday.
Wierd, done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Åkerfeldt was upset to hear the news and disbanded Opeth for a short period of time.[9] Afterwards, Åkerfeldt quickly reformed Opeth with the same members due to new material he had worked on.[9] Åkerfeldt posted advertisements in newspapers for open positions for a drummer and bassist." These couple of lines could use a rewrite- repetition of "Åkerfeldt", redundancy (you don't need to say both 'short period of time' and 'quickly') and the fact you claim that he "reformed Opeth with the same members", even though you have just said that two left. The section is confusing.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Orchid–My Arms, Your Hearse (1994–1998)" I don't like that dash- why not stick all three album names in? "[Album 1], [Album 2] and [Album 3]"? Or perhaps call it 'Candlelight Records' or something? Hmmm...
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The album was produced by Fredrik Nordström and was released on August 18, 1998.[9] My Arms, Your Hearse was recorded at Fredman studios in August and September 1997." Seems odd to talk about the release before the production.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The owner of Candlelight and a friend of Åkerfeldt's, sold his portion of ownership of the label, inspiring Opeth to leave the label, however, another reason was because the band's three album deal was over." Strange sentence. Do we know the name of the owner? (Call him Tom Smith for now.) I would change the sentence to "The owner of Candlelight and a friend of Åkerfeldt's, Tom Smith, sold his portion of the label, inspiring Opeth to seek a new contract. Regardless, the band's three album deal with Candlelight was over." Or something. In any case, the sentence isn't quite right.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's no critical commentary of the logo. I reccomend removing it, unless you can find a source discussing it, in which case I would add a little commentary.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "October 18, 1999 through Peaceville Records" I'd link there. People may well start reading at the start of the section then wonder who Peaceville Records are. Or perhaps you could move "Opeth signed with Peaceville Records" into that section?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Travis Smith illustrated the artwork for the album" I assume that is not Trivium's Travis Smith, but the redlink artist on the dab page?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "an old friends house to record" Apostrophe! The house belongs to the friend!
He he he, I suck with spelling and puctuation, done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for the very first time" I think the word 'very' is betraying a slight US bias there- why not just 'first time'?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Rivadavia stated Opeth is "repeatedly shattering the foundations of conventional songwriting"." Not sure about this line. How about "Rivadavia claimed in his review of [album] that Opeth was "repeatedly shattering the foundations of conventional songwriting"."
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "already had plans to write music for a new album. Åkerfeldt had trouble finding inspiration for music for a new album," What? How can they both be true? Could that perhaps be rewritten?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Åkerfeldt highly enjoyed the idea" Highly enjoyed? That sounds like a noble on a rollercoaster. How about 'liked' or 'approved of'?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "all of which also liked the idea" - "all of whom also liked it"
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "liked the idea. Åkerfeldt discussed the matter with Music for Nations. The label initially" Why not lose the little sentence, and say "liked the idea. Music for Nations initially"
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Opeth again recruited Wilson to produce the albums with the band." Perhaps remove 'with the band'?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "No Man's land studios" Could you perhaps check the capitalisation of that? I would have expected it to be "No Man's Land Studios"
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "decided against canceling the entire tour it" Just checked a paper dictionary to confirm, but it is spelt 'cancelling' in British English.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Åkerfeldt stated he chose to sign the band to Roadrunner was "confident the record is gonna be available everywhere."" This doesn't make sense.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Rod Smith of Decibel magazine stated the" Should be Decibel Magazine- italics and capitalisation.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "most gothic artwork" A link would be good- probably to gothic fiction.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "dealt with a concept occult themes" No need for 'a concept'.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which are of high" - "which were of high"
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Åkerfeldt stated he wanted "Isolation Years" on the album, which would not follow the concept of the album, therefore causing Åkerfeldt to change the lyrics to several songs on the album." Another clumsy sentence- try "Åkerfeldt stated he wanted the song "Isolation Years" on the album, which did not follow the concept of the album. He therefore changed the lyrics of several of the album's songs."
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with Opeth. The reasons for his departure were due to his personal health problems" How about "with Opeth, citing his personal health problems"?
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""The decision has been the toughest I've ever made but it is the right one to make at this point in my life." and "The reason behind this is that I feel that I simply have lost some of the enthusiasm and inspiration needed to participate in a band that has grown from a few guys playing the music we love to a worldwide industry."" Perhaps change to "He was quoted at [location] as saying "The decision has been the toughest I've ever made but it is the right one to make at this point in my life." As well as at [location] as saying "The reason behind this is that I feel that I simply have lost some of the enthusiasm and inspiration needed to participate in a band that has grown from a few guys playing the music we love to a worldwide industry."" If they are from the same location, run them together with ellipsis.
I'll fix it when I know what ellipsis means. :P —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, it's a ... as explained at ellipsis. For instance, instead of "He said "There are three reasons" and after explaining them said "all of which are as important as each other"" You could say "He said "There are three reasons... All of which are as important as each other." J Milburn (talk) 10:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm? Is there a way you would reword it? It came from the band's official website, but the source comes from elsewhere. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've checked the source, and adjusted it myself. J Milburn (talk) 16:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It has a tentative release for" Tentative is POV. "The band has set the release for..."
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of Stylus Magazine, described" No need for the comma.
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Rivadavia gave the album" Not mentioned in this section- try "[Name] Rivadavia, of All Music Guide, gave the album"
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He described the album as "rock fans with no interest" That's not a description of the album- switch to "He said that "rock..."
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "be rejected, however, Damnation was" Remove "however"
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Opeth has a large range of influences, including Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, and Camel, among others by various current and former members of the band." Doesn't make a lot of sense- perhaps lose everything after 'others'. Alternatively, change to "Various current and former members of the band have cited a wide range of influences, including... among others."
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The band has also influenced bands such as Wolves in the Throne Room and Watain." Perhaps "The band itself has influenced other acts such as Wolves in the Throne Room and Watain."
Done. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 23:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, that seems to be a particuarly long and critical review. I actually think the article is rather good- well done! J Milburn (talk) 18:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-automated

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indopug

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  • What does that logo add to the article? It isn't even in critiqued in the article. (Same goes for the logos in the AIC and godsmack articles) Most hihgh-quality band FAs (Pumpkins, Nirvana, R.E.M., U2) don't have the logo.
I had previously removed that, and someone just added it back. I just removed it again, it should be deleted. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the logo again myself, as well as adding a paragraph explaining why on the talk page. I have also tagged it as orphaned again. J Milburn (talk) 16:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess there was some kind of concensus on the talk page for it. Someone added some info to keep it in. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove the (((thingy))) from your AMG sources
Done —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add four (or so) song samples throughout and write detailed captions describing their music. I think I can get samples for you, just tell me which songs and start-end times.
I don't know what you are talking about for the start and stop times. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Which part of the song do you want as a sample - the time the part starts till it ends. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I am having someone else retrieve them. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you modify the infobox at the bottom of the article: live, demo, compilations, video columns each have only one entry. Put them all together in a "Other releases" section.
Done —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opeth released its debut album in 1995, however the band would not see any commercial success until the release of Damnation in 2003, debuting at number 192 on the Billboard 200 charts. - How do you know whether they were a commercial success just from a billboard chart? Obviously they had greatest success in Sweden/Scandinavia/Europe. This entire article is completely devoid of these charts, which are critical.
I don't know how to get other charts, I looked it up but can't find it. And I don't know any other languages, so I won't know what I am doing. Will you be able to find any? —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I searched the charts that I found on Nirvana discography and all it came up with was a couple from Ghost reveries. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What about Norwegian, Austrian, Dutch, Swiss charts? indopug (talk) 04:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ed Rivadavia of All Music Guide gave the album four out of five possible stars as a rating. Although the band initialy thought the album would be rejected, Damnation was well recieved on tour, and garnered the band positive reviews. - Why in the style section?
I already had enough AMG quotes in the history section, so I put it in the para about Damnation. Kind of like the St, Anger para in the style section of Metallica. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • [10][26][27][28][29] - too many refs in one go; ration them out through the sentence, after each sentence.
Done —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Opeth has a large range of influences..." - That entire para is a bunch of bands, thats all. Could you give quotes from different bands stating Opeth as influence (and vice versa). Also, quote critics comparing them to other bands.
I'll try working on that. That is the last thing to work on now. 22:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • 18 March to 15 April 2005, however the band finished recording on 1 June. - too many details for a band article.
Done —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • replace "on the Billboard 200" with "in the U.S." - there is only one albums chart in the U.S.
Yes there are. I was linking to the billboard that is why it is there. whay shouldn't it? It's just another link. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • [22][23][24][25] - why four refs for a release date??
Done —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • why does gothic artwork link to gothic fiction?
Because the reviewer above you told me to. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
People may not understand the word 'gothic'. If someone said 'the most post-modernistic cover' we would link to it. However, I would reccomend only linking the word 'gothic', as the article is on gothic fiction, not gothic art. J Milburn (talk) 16:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed it myself. J Milburn (talk) 17:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first part of the second paragraph of the lead should include more about their early career. More is said about Damnation than the rest of their records! "Opeth has released eight studio albums, one live album, one box set, and one DVD thus far in its career. Since the band's inception, there have been 15 official members, with Åkerfeldt remaining as the only original member." - That can be completely removed: the records are more apt for a discog article. Say near the members at the top that X was the sole continual members. Why is Ghost reveries mentioned and not any other? Charting is unnecessary in the lead. The lead pretty much needs to be rewritten.
I have re-written it four times. It is being jerked around by every reviewer, so I don't know what else to do with it. Do you? —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The prose could use some ironing out; I'll do it later. Also, that quote in the middle of the article could be trimmed.
Are you talking about a copy edit? I got rid of unnecessary stuff on the quote, the rest should stay. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't hesitate to ask me for help; I'm kinda free for the next two days, I can improve the prose. Have you also scourged google for refs? "Opeth articles", "Opeth interviews" etc are good tries. Search for previews and stuff on Google books or Amazon also.
indopug (talk) 18:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have googled stightly, there aren't enough reliable sources. The band bio is the ultimate source for this. As a matter of fact, the only reason I am doing this article is because I found that source. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 22:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Er, you can't use just one source (even though it may be "ultimate"), that would be completely at odds with how an encyclopedia is supposed to be, which is an amalgamation of information across many sources and different POVs. I think you need to incorporate a lot more sources. There are tons of interviews found on google, with lots of info. When you write a band bio, you need to read ALL the sources, especially online ones as they're easily reachable. Are you sure there aren't any offline sources/books? Again, just like AIC, you're not using enough sources. Look at Nirvana discography for some European chart websites. This thing has a long way to go for FA, and I think you're again rushing to get the little bronze star. Take your time; a month, maybe more. indopug (talk) 05:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am taking my time on here. I have retieved nearly forty sources, I'm not using just one. There are no books on the band. Like I've said, whatever reccomondations you have, I will try my hardest to do. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 21:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
20 of those 40 sources are either AMG or Opeth autobiography. And the autobiography can't be taken as so reliable that it be used as pretty much the major source; you have to consider that it will have some self-promotion in it. Also, check out and incorporate the "Session diaries" from that official site. Dude, "Opeth interviews" gives a truckload of interviews, include them too. Although there are no books on the band, there are plenty of books on death metal that talk about Opeth. (check amazon/google book search). indopug (talk) 04:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've been srufing through interviews, seeing what is good etc. I ried going to session diaries and could'nt find them, could you give me a link? If he is talking about the band's reception and stuff, I don't use it. I use the source for recording info etc. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 04:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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