Property talk:P364

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Documentation

original language of film or TV show
language in which a film or a performance work was originally created. Deprecated for written works and songs; use P407 ("language of work or name") instead.
DescriptionLanguage in which the movie was created. Use language of work or name (P407) for other works. Use native language (P103) or languages spoken, written or signed (P1412) for persons.
Representsoriginal language (Q17590740)
Data typeItem
Domainaudiovisual work (Q2431196), YouTube channel (Q17558136) or publication (Q732577)
Allowed values
According to this template: any languoid (Q17376908), mainly languages - language (Q34770)
According to statements in the property:
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Usage notesbrukes ikke for bøker
上映・舞台作品専用です。書籍等には言語（P407）を使用します。
Tracking: sameno label (Q42533249)
Tracking: differencesno label (Q57387036)
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P364 (Q20990015)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses
Total447,370
Main statement446,66199.8% of uses
Qualifier4510.1% of uses
Reference258<0.1% of uses
Search for values
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200), Wikibase MediaInfo (Q59712033): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P364#Entity types
Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P364#Scope, SPARQL
Value type “languoid (Q17376908)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value languoid (Q17376908) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P364#Value type Q17376908, SPARQL
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): manga (Q8274), light novel series (Q104213567), light novel (Q747381), fictional universe (Q559618), manga series (Q21198342)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P364#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL
This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

 
Wikidata properties related to reference (Q121769)
Main
Date
URL
Others


rename to "language"

[edit]

Sorry, I did not notice this property, but I think this property should be renamed to language.

  • We should have a different item for each different tranlsation of a book (see for instance Wikidata Talk:Books task force#Relations between books). That means that we should add a language property to each edition, not just the original one. We also need to have a way to know which item is the original edition. The original language is usally just the language of the original version. For more problematic cases, we can use qualifiers.
  • I am not sure we need items for every dubbing of a movie, but it seems fine to use "language" for the original language. (that is what en:Infobox film does it).
  • There are cases "original language" does not apply, but a "language" property would still be useful. For instance, we should be able to say that the Rosetta Stone contains inscriptions in Greek. --Zolo (talk) 12:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One minor problem there may be with calling it "language" is that collides with "native language" (P:P103). As explained on Property talk:P103, I think that it would make sense to extend P103 that a person speaks non-natively. It we do that, I would think it would make sense to also merge that with this property. --Zolo (talk) 22:03, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now I came here from Property talk:P357 and you send me to Property talk:P103. I think it's not the best idea to merge all these properties ... --Kolja21 (talk) 22:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

single value

[edit]

there are lots of films and other works that have two or more original languages. the single value constraint should be removed. --Akkakk 00:36, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They may have, but I wonder if we don't get primarily lists of available synchronizations on the constraint report. --  Docu  at 18:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I´ve removed the single value constraint. It does not help in any way in fixing, because allmost all reports are not errors.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 14:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

renamed label

[edit]

I removed the "(creative work)" addition from the label. There are about 800 properties and no other have an addition like this. It's part of the description to explain the usage. --Nightwish62 (talk) 22:07, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does it make sense as qualifier?

[edit]

I added a qualifier original language of film or TV show (P364) with value Swedish (Q9027) inside claim for occupation (P106) with value translator (Q333634) in Barbara Gawryluk (Q15069307). I wonder whether it makes some sense or such things shall be avoided. It does not tell about preferred direction of translating. There can be also cases when translation is performed between two foreign languages. I saw an interview with a Polish translator who worked in EU and was performing live translation from English to French and back. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 19:36, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That is clearly inappropriate since this is intended for material that is translated, not the translator. Circeus (talk) 23:31, 30 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Given names and new label ("language" changed to "language of work")

[edit]
Ash Crow
Dereckson
Harmonia Amanda
Hsarrazin
Jura
Чаховіч Уладзіслаў
Joxemai
Place Clichy
Branthecan
Azertus
Jon Harald Søby
PKM
Pmt
Sight Contamination
MaksOttoVonStirlitz
BeatrixBelibaste
Moebeus
Dcflyer
Looniverse
Aya Reyad
Infovarius
Tris T7
Klaas 'Z4us' van B. V
Deborahjay
Bruno Biondi
ZI Jony
Laddo
Da Dapper Don
Data Gamer
Luca favorido
The Sir of Data Analytics
Skim
E4024
JhowieNitnek
Envlh
Susanna Giaccai
Epìdosis
Aluxosm
Dnshitobu
Ruky Wunpini
Balû
★Trekker

Notified participants of WikiProject Names

This property is used on many items for given names. The new label doesn't quite work there. What to do? --- Jura 07:46, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

this property is, and always was, intended for texts (books, articles), or films…, to indicate the "original language" - its use for given names seems quite strange :S --Hsarrazin (talk) 19:36, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, with the old label, it went fairly well ;)
Would we need to create a new property or could we use another existing one? --- Jura 19:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I went with the first solution: Wikidata:Property_proposal/Generic#Language --- Jura 05:04, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the labels to prevent people to use it for persons. There were thousands of constraining errors because it was frequently mixed up, and people would not notice the difference without changing the labels, because they dont look at the descriptions. In some languages labels and/or descriptions are missing so users don´t understand it to full extent.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 05:23, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds reasonable. --- Jura 05:37, 12 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What about language of work or name (P407)? --Infovarius (talk) 08:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Decision is to delete; mark as deprecated

[edit]

Wioshing to note that a while agpo, the deletion discussion was closed with the decision to be to delete this property. See Special:PermanentLink/503196290#language of work or name (P407) and original language of work (P364)./ I have marked the English language as deprecated, others may wish to do the same for other languages.  — billinghurst sDrewth 13:47, 24 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it was "to merge" and "don't start any mass changes yet.". We still haven't seen a solution for movies yet. For books and similar works, you might want to develop a plan how to sort things out as well.
--- Jura 14:04, 24 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Jura1: As WD:PFD#Movies said, no Wikidata:WikiProject Movies members are focusing to keep this property, so let's feel free to split movie items like Q29478369, Q29478260 and others. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:05, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The solution suggested there was dicussed numerous times before, but wasn't consider sufficient. Maybe it's better to focus on getting books sorted out rather than undoing what was built.
--- Jura 04:11, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Songs

[edit]

I see that the property has been renamed to be only about TV and the descriptions says that there is language of work or name (P407) for text works. What about songs? -Ash Crow (talk) 20:38, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

language of work or name (P407) can be used for any kind of works, including songs. --Pasleim (talk) 08:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

why not for written works?

[edit]

Why should this property be reserved to film or TV? Unless I am mistaken, there is no equivalent property for written works, though I think it would be pertinent. The process of adaptation to other languages is very similar, is there some subtle logic I am missing here? CaféBuzz (talk) 06:50, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi CaféBuzz, to indicate the (original) language of written works use language of work or name (P407) on the work item. Adaptations and translation should get their own item (an edition item).
To have an example: Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus (Q150827) (about the work) has Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus (Q150827)language of work or name (P407)English (Q1860). Frankenstein, ou le Prométhée moderne (Q51434118) (about the French version) has Frankenstein, ou le Prométhée moderne (Q51434118)language of work or name (P407)French (Q150), both are linked via edition or translation of (P629)/has edition or translation (P747). That there exists an edition of the work in French implies that Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus (Q150827) has been translated to French.
There had been a deletion/merge discussion about this property: Properties for deletion: P407 and P364. People from WikiProject Movies argued that they still need this for TV series/films. I'm not sure about their reasons, but that's why we still have two properties about the language of a work. Regards, Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 14:16, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok @Valentina.Anitnelav, thanks for the detailed explanations CaféBuzz (talk) 15:42, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why not podcast episode (Q61855877)?

[edit]

Why not for podcast episode (Q61855877)? Marek Mazurkiewicz podcast episode (Q61855877) is similar to television series episode (Q21191270) (talk) 21:46, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Marek Mazurkiewicz. The reason is the same as for written works (see section above). You may just use language of work or name (P407). For localisations or translations in different languages you may create an own item and make it an instance of version, edition or translation (Q3331189) (or a subclass thereof). This property (original language of film or TV show (P364)) still exists for what I would call "historical reasons" (to support the practice of the long standing WikiProject Movies). - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 07:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Film Translations

[edit]

What should be used for an instance of film translated into a language that is not the language of the original? One can't use language of work or name (P407) for film, but original language of film or TV show (P364) clearly refers to the first language of a work, not subsequent translations. Jerimee (talk) 21:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Property_talk:P364#rename_to_"language" is relevant to this question (but doesn't answer it).
Jerimee (talk) 21:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property_talk:P364&oldid=2269594780"