Wikidata:Property proposal/number of local branches

number of local branches

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

   Not done

Description	number of branches of this organization at the lowest (local) level
Data type	Quantity
Domain	Local branch (Q232846)
Allowed units	number (Q11563)
Example 1	Norwegian Association of the Disabled (Q11992044)→[153]
Example 2	Green Party (Q1518568)→[193]
Example 3	Norwegian Agrarian Association (Q6514634)→[520]
Example 4	Jewish Labour Movement (Q16851303)→[4]
Example 5	OpenStreetMap Foundation (Q6542248)→[18]
Wikidata project	WikiProject Organizations (Q21830563)

Motivation

This property is for the most local chapter in a organzation and political parties(maybe companies as well idk). local associations, local branch or local chapter. Not for Fedreal or national branches or county branch or county chapter. This Property is for the most local organ of in a organization.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johshh (talk • contribs) at 01:34, June 26, 2024‎ (UTC).

Discussion

• "local branch" is not a well-defined terms (what is a local branch of WMF?). I think you can create items for each of local branchs instead.--GZWDer (talk) 15:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  Based on the information I found on Wikimedia chapters, there are 37 chapters. Typically, an organization is composed of three levels: the national level, the intermediate level county (Q28575), and the local level (municipality (Q15284)(This is the Property is being used for). This structure is common in most organizations. The property i am proposing is intended to represent the most local branch of an organization.

  
  

  What i am sort of saying is that most organization is organized like pyramid. There might be more hierarchy in an organization i am saying it is often 3 levels in an organization or political party.

  
  
  

  Lets take for instance the freemasonry (Q41726) whitsh have organization system that looks like this

  With Grand Lodge (Highest organ)

  Than an Provincial/District Grand Lodge

  And with the most local branch being Lodge (masonic lodge (Q1454597)

  
  
  

  Other words that is maybe beter:

  Local Association

  Local level chapter

  Local level branch Johshh (talk) 23:06, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support I think this is clear enough, and I don't really think it would make sense to add entries for every such small entity, though in some cases sure. This is also something that will change over time, so a point in time qualifier would be helpful I think. ArthurPSmith (talk) 12:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC) (Edited to note that I think the has part(s) of the class (P2670) solution is better here. ArthurPSmith (talk) 21:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC))
•  Oppose There is no need for new <number of x> properties. As GZWDer said, there are at least two problems here: "local branch" can mean a lot of things, and it's better creating items for each local branch, and linking the main organization from these items. If you really want to state that 'Organization x' has n local branches, you can do <organization>has part(s) of the class (P2670)<item for generic local branch>quantity (P1114)n, where <item for generic local branch> is an item that represents a category for all those local branches of an specific organization, like masonic lodge (Q1454597) for freemasonry (Q41726), or Wikimedia chapter (Q15924535) for Wikimedia Foundation (Q180). --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 14:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  So i have to make a new item that is called number of local chapter, and than use that item under P2670? Johshh (talk) 20:52, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  No, it's not an item 'number of local chapters' but 'local chapter of x organization'. The item represents the class in which all local branches belongs to. Different organizations have different ways to organize its subdivisions (some orgs also have more than one level for subdivisions) so it's better that each organization have an item 'organization subdivision' in order to be more precise. But if you really want to avoid creating those items, you can follow ArthurPSmith's advice, and use Q1410110 as a generic item: <organization>has part(s) of the class (P2670)branch (Q1410110)quantity (P1114)n. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 23:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment Ok, I guess has part(s) of the class (P2670) is fine for this also. I was concerned that we were promoting the creation of a huge number of local items that wouldn't otherwise be notable. @Johshh: the new item wouldn't be "number of local chapter" but "local chapter of X organization", if that's the sort of branch you have. As Tinker Bell put it, <item for generic local branch> is an item that represents a category for all those local branches of an specific organization; you could also just go with a more generic item I think here - branch (Q1410110) seems to me would be fine as the value for has part(s) of the class (P2670) for most companies. ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

  Isn't it just easier to create a item called "Number of local chapters" and just point it sortof to branch (Q1410110). And use that item on every organization like this <organization>has part(s) of the class (P2670)<a item called "Number of local chapters">quantity (P1114)n. Johshh (talk) 22:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

   Oppose There are different legal statuses of how organizations can relate to each other. A branch (Q1410110) is a "local establishment of a company, not independent legal entity". Wikimedia chapters are independent legal entities and not branches. has part(s) of the class (P2670) actually gets you to specify how the organizations relate to each other which is good. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 22:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

  It doesn't make sense to use it for international organizations like WMF, but for organizations at the nation-state level, it's easier because most organizations have by-law (Q679847) where you can see how their hierarchy works. You can also find these by-law (Q679847) with the property charter URL (P6378).

  What do you mean by "actually gets you to specify how the organizations relate to each other which is good.". Johshh (talk) 22:42, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

  @ChristianKl:, could you please clarify the comments above by @Johshh:. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 03:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  Because you can't relate to each item with has part(s) of the class (P2670). Johshh (talk) 01:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

•  Oppose – Like Tinker Bell said, a much better and more general model is to use <organization>has part(s) of the class (P2670)<branch class>quantity (P1114)n; if you feel no need to be more specific (or if you are lazy :-) ), you can use the generic <organization>has part(s) of the class (P2670)branch (Q1410110)quantity (P1114)n right now as an exact equivalent of the proposed property. (And when you want/need to be more specific, you use more specific classes in that model.) In fact, you wouldn’t be the first: Q11970195#P2670, Q110474658#P2670. --Mormegil (talk) 13:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
•  Not done, no consensus of proposed property at this time based on the above discussion. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 05:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)