Gebruikerbespreking:Sb008

Hallo Sb008, hartlik welkom op die Afrikaanse Wikipedia! *Message in English* *Bericht in het Nederlands*
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Hierdie bladsy, wat nou op jou skerm vertoon word, is trouens jou persoonlike besprekingsbladsy. Die plek waar ander Wikipediane jou in die toekoms kan kontak en jy hulle dan kan beantwoord. Elke gebruiker het so ’n bladsy. Jy kan dus ook boodskappe op ander gebruikers se besprekingsbladsye los. Sluit boodskappe en besprekings altyd af met ~~~~ of deur op die handtekeningknop in die wysigingsvenster te kliek: sodoende word jou boodskap onderteken met jou gebruikersnaam en die datum en tyd waarop die boodskap gestuur is. Kliek dan laastens op "Publiseer wysigings" om enige bewerkings te stoor.

Dankie vir die verbeterings.

Jcwf (kontak) 17:36, 30 Oktober 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Dankie vir jou verbeterings by 3 Grands Prix. --Aliwal2012 ("Die perd se bek") 12:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes

Hello Sb008, thank you for all your useful corrections. I have just one question: What is the reason for this? There was a second example, but I can't remember where. Main pages in categories are usually marked by a space, as far as I know in all the Wikipedia language projects. Thank you for your help, again! Groete. -- SpesBona 19:15, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

@SpesBona:

Since there isn't a help page for Kategorie on AF-Wiki, I refer to EN-Wiki Help:Category#Sorting category pages and Help:Category#Summary

Generically speaking you have the choice between "[[Category:Category name]]" or "[[Category:Category name|Sortkey]]"

Specifically:

"[[Kategorie:Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes]]" (and no "DEFAULTSORT:" defined) will list the page "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes" under the letter "B" on the kategorie page "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes". There is no "sortkey" and no "DEFAULTSORT" defined, so the first letter of "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes", the B, is used as letter where the page is to be listed under.
"[[Kategorie:Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes|Hoofstedelike Gewes Brussel]]" would list the page "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes" under the letter "H" on the kategorie page "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes". There is a "sortkey" defined, so the first letter of "Hoofstedelike Gewes Brussel", the H, is used as letter where the page is to be listed under.
"DEFAULTSORT:Hoofstedelike Gewes Brussel"
"[[Kategorie:Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes]]" would list the page "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes" under the letter "H" on the kategorie page "Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes". There is a "DEFAULTSORT" defined, which basically defines "sortkey", so the first letter of "Hoofstedelike Gewes Brussel", the H, is used as letter where the page is to be listed under.

"DEFAULTSORT:Hoofstedelike Gewes Brussel|" has an empty "sortkey". Effectively the sortkey will be ignored, but strictly spoken it's a syntax error. You either do or don't have a "sortkey". If you do have a "sortkey", it's supposed to be not empty.

--Sb008 (kontak) 21:31, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

@SpesBona:

The case above is a bit confusing because the page and the kategorie both have the same name.

So let us have a look at the page you just worked on "Ben Macdhui" and let us assume the kategorie "bergpieke in Suid-Afrika" would exist (it doesn't).

Now if on the page "Ben Macdhui" we would add:

"[[Kategorie:bergpieke in Suid-Afrika]]" (and no "DEFAULTSORT:" defined) will list the page "Ben Macdhui" under the letter "B" on the kategorie page "bergpieke in Suid-Afrika". There is no "sortkey" and no "DEFAULTSORT" defined, so the first letter of "Ben Macdhui", the B, is used as letter where the page is to be listed under.
"[[Kategorie:bergpieke in Suid-Afrika|Macdhui Ben]]" would list the page "Ben Macdhui" under the letter "M" on the kategorie page "bergpieke in Suid-Afrika". There is a "sortkey" defined, so the first letter of "Macdhui Ben", the M, is used as letter where the page is to be listed under.
"DEFAULTSORT:Macdhui Ben"
"[[Kategorie:bergpieke in Suid-Afrika]]" would list the page "Ben Macdhui" under the letter "M" on the kategorie page "bergpieke in Suid-Afrika". There is a "DEFAULTSORT" defined, which basically defines "sortkey", so the first letter of "Macdhui Ben", the M, is used as letter where the page is to be listed under.

--Sb008 (kontak) 21:54, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Articles with the same name as a category are usually sorted as the main article of the category. A simple example is en:Category:South Africa, where en:South Africa is the main article of that category. The same in German, French, Dutch, etc. Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes here was the same like that. I try to understand the reason of changing that. If this is a sortkey error, most of the Wikipedias has this error. Imho it is not a sortkey error, just one of the simple sortkeys like "!" or "*". Groete. --

SpesBona 22:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

@SpesBona: I see what you mean, however strictly spoken I see it as a syntax error which does not result in an error on the page. An empty sortkey is no sortkey. Similar Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes ("[[Brusselse Hoofstedelike Gewes|]]") doesn't result in an error on the page either but syntactically isn't correct. The essential characteristic, of what you call simply shortkeys, is that they are not empty. But you could be correct and the result of an empty sortkey is as intended.--Sb008 (kontak) 23:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

@Sb008: iets om op te let is dat 'n spasie nie 'n leë sortkey is nie. 'n Spasie is 'n geldige sortkey en sorteer voor alfabetiese karakters. Dit is waarna Gebruiker:SpesBona verwys wanneer hy noem dat die hoofartikel in 'n kategorie bo gesorteer word. Dit word bo gesorteer deur dit 'n spasie as sortkey te gee. Dit is nie 'n sintaksisfout nie. – K175 (trap my uit | bydraes) 07:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

@SpesBona en K175: The change has been reversed. Also on other pages where I made the same change. List of pages involved:

The last 2 are not the only main article within the category they're a member of. So please check if it's as supposed to be. --Sb008 (kontak) 14:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

No patience

@JMK, Oesjaar, en Sobaka: Why do all of you have to jump on pages (Bewys deur oneindige afkoms and Fermat se reghoekigedriehoekstelling) I'm still working on? I lost a lot of additional edits because while I was making those edits, pages were changed, and therefore I couldn't save my changes. I may not be able to write in Afrikaans, but I do understand math. And I can tell you both pages are far from done. Why not let me do my thing first and wait a day or so to make language changes? After all it's quite common not to butt in right away. For over a year none of you cared about those pages and if I can't get the respect to do my thing first without interference, I'm done here. No more help from me. Just one more tip. STOP translating pages with tools. It results in poor quality pages. Even the errors on source pages are translated as such. --Sb008 (kontak) 20:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Sorry about that. Do you still have your changes for Bewys deur oneindige afkoms? Can you copy and paste them into the latest version please? If not, then you are welcome to overwrite my changes and I will copy and paste my edits. I mostly changed the grammar. – K175 (trap my uit | bydraes) 20:32, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Sb008, sorry to upset you, it was not meant that way. Unlike you I am not an advance user with all the technical know how, just look what you have done with the difficult A1 errors! You are correct, we have not touched some of those articles for years, simply we did not around or did not knew that they existed. My passion is my language, the best I can do is correct spelling checks, create links and integrate new articles. I agree with you, automatic translations are terrible! You are most welcome to do your thing.... Regards! Oesjaar (kontak) 05:44, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Sorry no malice intended, will curb my enthusiasm!Sobaka (kontak) 16:32, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]

Apologies, guilty as charged with the second article. And I know it's very frustrating when that happens. Usually before I save I copy the whole edit window, in case of such an edit conflict, then overwrite. Your work on those articles is very much appreciated. Perhaps include "still busy" in your edit summary. JMK (kontak) 10:51, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[antwoord]