Talk:Murder of pregnant women

Citation needed for DV victim ratio

I added a citation needed tag to the claim that most domestic violence victims are women. A meta study that looked at 221 studies found that women are as violent, if not more so, than men: http://web.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm. If you're going to claim the opposite, please cite sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56A:F2D0:CE00:D192:7603:4149:7959 (talk) 04:51, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Untitled

I feel this article has a great beginning. It is an important topic that needs to be discussed in-depth. Some suggestions for improving this article include current/updated research, inclusion of hard data, and a discussion of the link between domestic violence and the murder of pregnant women. Many states have statutes dealing specifically with the murder of pregnant women and it would be helpful to include that information. The stories of individual murders help give this topic a "real face" so I would like to see more of them from various locations.Dvpolicy11 (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Great suggestions! One thing I will add though is that the mentions of individual murders all need to be notable enough for inclusion. Although they may give the article a "real face", as you put it, the article needs to be encyclopedic. So, although they can be included, be very careful that the additions are notable. – GorillaWarfare ^{talk • contribs} 04:47, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Were you really working on this at 3 a.m.? Is that what I have to look forward too in my last semester? I don't know that this is relevant to the wiki but just a thought. Have there been or are there underway studies looking at predictive factors for which pregnant women are most at-risk to be murdered by partner? Thanks for your commitment to educating folks about this important issue. Anne CortesAC19 (talk) 17:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Anne. No I wasnt working at 3 a.m. but did not get it moved until yesterday. There are some studies looking at predictors and I will discuss those during my presentation. One huge predictor is prior violence (intimate partner violence). Thanks for your interest. TracyDvpolicy11 (talk) 17:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The second sentence says that this problem is occuring in the United States but then has parenthesis saying "as well as the world." However, there is no other mention of any studies, research, statistics, etc. in this article except for those relating directly to the United States. I would suggest to add that information or simply remove those parenthesis and stay focused on the US. Further down in the article it discusses system wide training of DV and how it is needed. I would suggest adding some exact topics, cases that would be discussed, etc. Do you think training only is needed or possibly policies? How can this training be implemented and maybe provide some examples of the referals. Anyway, these are only suggestions but I thought this was a very interesting article. Suzanne10 (talk) 17:40, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Because the article is "Murder of pregnant women" and not "Murder of pregnant women in the United States", it is best to globalize the article. You'll see I have changed the sentence you mentioned above. – GorillaWarfare ^{talk • contribs} 22:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Article Critique for Public Policy

I would agree with Suzanne10 in her suggesstion that the author add more information pertaining to the rest of the world, as oppossed to just the United States. I am curious if this topic has been discussed in depth in other countries, as it is relatively new topic of discussion in the United States. I also wonder if it is neccesary to include more information on the other leading causes of death of pregnant women, in addition to the focus on domestic violence. I am not sure if this would be applicable because the article is part of a series on "Violence against women." Overall, I think the article is interesting and I applaud the author for creating a new page on a topic that there is not much research on. TROVB5Trovb5 (talk) 18:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Execution

Is it legal to execute a pregnant woman? --Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty | Averted crashes} 22:27, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

wow

This was one of the most biased and worst referenced pages I have ever seen on Wikipedia. I found a reference to this page because someone was referencing it in a discussion to prove that 20% of woman who die during pregrnancy are murdered. Your article here states that and references a news article that alludes to that but does not prove it. Horrible Horrible Horibble WIKI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.89.2 (talk) 01:12, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

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Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Winona State University supported by WikiProject United States Public Policy and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Spring term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{WAP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 16:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Media and Gender F24

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2024 and 4 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Samdlb123 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Malcaluna.

— Assignment last updated by Malcaluna (talk) 19:05, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Proposed title change and updating article

Hello!

I have been working on updating and expanding this page for the past few weeks, and I wanted to explain the changes I made to the page, as well as my proposed article title change.

First, I requested changing the title of this article to "Pregnancy and Femicide" rather than "Murder of Pregnant Women" because, throughout the research I conducted to update and expand upon this page, the importance of designating this type of homicide as gender-based, and therefore a femicide, in order to properly address it and prevent further cases, was repeatedly emphasized. I therefore believe that changing the title to reflect this notion is crucial. Additionally, considering studies on pregnancy-associated femicide not only comprise the period of pregnancy, but the postpartum period as well, I feel that the current title does not accurately reflect the subject.

Regarding the article itself, I updated and expanded upon the “Statistics” section to reflect the most recent research on the subject, both in the United States and globally, as most of the research included on this page dates back over 10 years ago and only covers the U.S. I updated the "Laws and policies" section to highlight that there are no legal policies in the United States to specifically address victims of femicide. I also included in this section that the same is true in Canada, as well as most countries around the world, with Latin American countries being a notable exception. On the talk page, someone recommended finding better sourcing for the existing information in the "Laws and policies" section, so I updated the sources and referencing for that information as well.

I expanded upon the "Intervention" section, covering racial inequities in the health care system as a significant prevention method, as racism in healthcare has been linked to the increased prevalence of pregnancy-associated femicide for Black American women. The "Intervention" section therefore now includes addressing racial inequities and biases in the health care system. Considering most pregnancy-associated femicides are preceded by IPV, I also added training obstetricians in identifying instances of IPV to the "Intervention" section. Additionally, reproductive rights and stricter gun legislation are also now included in the "Intervention" section, as unplanned pregnancies and gun ownership have been linked to pregnancy-associated femicide as well. Finally, the "Intervention" section also includes researchers' recommendations to develop standardized methods of documenting and classifying pregnancy-associated homicides, both in the United States and globally.

The introduction has been updated to reflect the changes made throughout this Wikipedia entry. Finally, I plan to add a short section for "Known cases" in the upcoming weeks. Samdlb123 (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 31 October 2024

Murder of pregnant women → Pregnancy and femicide – I think the page should be named "Pregnancy and femicide" rather than "Murder of pregnant women" because, throughout the research I conducted to update and expand upon this page, the importance of designating this type of homicide as gender-based, and therefore a femicide, in order to properly address it and prevent further cases, was repeatedly emphasized. I therefore believe that changing the title to reflect this notion is crucial. Additionally, considering studies on pregnancy-associated femicide not only comprise the period of pregnancy, but the postpartum period as well, I feel that the current title does not accurately reflect the subject. Samdlb123 (talk) 03:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 17:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposal adjusted to WP:SENTENCECASE, assuming the title case was just a lack of awareness of the sentence case convention. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 09:25, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Well argued. Frankly I was expecting both the article and the RM to be blatantly POV, but the article is well referenced and NPOV, and while the nomination does not explicitly refer to policy the move will IMO clearly improve Wikipedia. I am sincerely impressed. Difficult subject well handled. (The article is blatantly US-centric but that is a different issue.) Andrewa (talk) 09:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Given WP:AND, I might prefer Pregnancy-associated femicide to Pregnancy and femicide. Suriname0 (talk) 22:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Pregnancy-related femicide? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Pregnancy-associated is more aligned with the usage I am familiar with. In the US, state maternal mortality review committees and the CDC define a pregnancy-related death as any death that occurs during pregnancy or up to 1 year after live birth, where the cause of death is related to or aggravated by the pregnancy or pregnancy management. Homicides, suicides, accidental death, and other non-natural causes of death are excluded. Pregnancy-associated death is an umbrella term that includes all deaths during pregnancy or within 1 year of birth, including those that are pregnancy-related, but also "unnatural" deaths like homicide, natural deaths determined not to be "pregnancy-related," and indeterminate cases. Sometimes it is defined more narrowly to exclude deaths that are determined to be pregnancy-related. I support Pregnancy-associated femicide, which is the term currently used in the opening sentence. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 00:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support Pregnancy-associated femicide per Myceteae, who seems familiar with the terminology convention. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Welp, just came back here to say I looked at some sources and homicide can be classified as pregnancy-related. For example here (WA MMRC) and here (CDC). I’d be happy to do a more thorough review if helpful. I read a lot of these, unfortunately. Otherwise, I would still prefer pregnancy-associated femicide as this is the broader term. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 03:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  User:Samdlb123, I'm very interested in your opinion on this alternative suggestion. Andrewa (talk) 08:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support Pregnancy-associated femicide (change of !vote, previous one struck). Ticks all the boxes. Andrewa (talk) 20:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Hi @Andrewa, thank you so much for your kind words regarding the article! I agree with the suggestion made by @Suriname0 and @Myceteae regarding the title of "Pregnancy-associated femicide" being better suited for this article instead of "Pregnancy and femicide". Regarding the difference between "pregnancy-related" and "pregnancy-associated" , as @Myceteae pointed out, the term "pregnancy-related" is commonly used in relation to natural causes of maternal death, excluding unnatural causes like homicide, whereas "pregnancy-associated" is the term most frequently used to refer to both natural and unnatural causes of maternal death, including homicide. Considering "pregnancy-associated femicide" is indeed the official term used to designate this type of violent crime, and would therefore be a clearer, more accurate title for this subject, I agree with this alternative title suggestion, and support a move to Pregnancy-associated femicide for this article. Samdlb123 (talk) 16:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Simply credit where credit is due. Like most admins, much of my time is spent dealing with sub-standard efforts, which is why we call adminship "the mop". This discussion has been refreshing for many reasons, see below.

  But I'm super-sensitive to anyone who says my article. All pages (even user and user talk pages) belong to the whole project.

  You've shown no sign of violating wp:own or even wp:creed#own, and that's IMO the main reason we seem to be forming a good consensus here, again credit where credit is due. So I point that out just for others lurking here. As I said, it's one of my buttons, and that's a result of many years of challenging experience here. Andrewa (talk) 08:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wikipedia is indeed a collaborative project and, as such, I have edited my original comment from "my article" to "the article" to reflect that. Thank you for pointing that out. I am relatively new to Wikipedia and still getting a handle on it, so I appreciate the insight. Samdlb123 (talk) 15:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is technically (and perhaps pedantically) a violation of WP:REDACT but I don't suggest correcting it now, just something to bear in mind in future. Andrewa (talk) 08:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  Okay noted, thank you! Samdlb123 (talk) 23:48, 11 November 2024 (UTC)