User talk:Technical 13/2013/2

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User talk:Launchballer#Your Signature

I started the conversation on your page, I'm moving your talk there and will continue to discuss it there as need be. Technical 13 (talk) 16:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Regarding template userboxbreak

Please see the problems in my userpage most probably due to the edits you made to the template - Userboxbreak. Please correct it immediately. It has destroyed not only my user page, but also that of several others. - Jayadevp13 15:24, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Technical 13, whatever you think you're fixing is not actually fixing things, and is breaking everyone else's use of the template. If you edit that template again, I am going to have to block you for disruption. Anomie⚔ 15:32, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

No, it is broken without my change... See User:Technical 13/Userboxes/OS/Examples and User:Technical 13/Userboxes/Browser/Examples. Technical 13 (talk) 15:44, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Requesting mediation on the subject of User:Launchballer's signature.

Requesting mediation on the subject of User:Launchballer's signature. I see you've had discussions with this user before, and since the user informed me that he had previous issues and my issue was never brought up then, I have decided to research this. I've so far found you have had issues there before, and would like you to help mediate this to make sure the user understands there is no "grandfathering" as it were of signatures. You may find the current discussion here. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 16:08, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't wish to get involved regard disputes with other users. Please refer to WP:RFC or WP:AN. Stifle (talk) 19:23, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

A few things...

If you don't want to read this, you don't have to; I won't bug you again unless you want me to. :)

I just wanted to drop a note about your last post to the ANI thread (since it's been closed, we shouldn't post there more). Of course admins are supposed to assume good faith and be civil. But, admins are human; we get frustrated like everyone else from time to time and sometimes let things slip. It was in that spirit that Anomie made his first post to you, which as I said was too...gruff, I suppose is the closest word I can come up with. It honestly wasn't all that bad.

But for the rest of his post, you have to understand where he's coming from, and that based on what he saw, the "troll" conclusion was not unreasonable. Yes, assuming good faith is part of our core ethos, but "assume good faith" is not a suicide pact; if there's compelling evidence that someone is a troll, we are not required to tap-dance around the fact that we think he's a troll; it's not uncivil or a personal attack to simply call it like we see it. It's not often a good or wise idea to do so, since we can always still be wrong, but it happens. And Anomie wasn't totally unreasonable to think so from his perspective, and nor were the other people who posted in that thread; in their point of view, your contributions (particularly the blanking of the redirect and its edit summary) really did look like those of a troll, even if you didn't mean them that way.

As far as WP:BITE goes, that's not a suicide pact either, and it doesn't extend indefinitely. You've been around Wikipedia for coming up on two years now (longer than I have, in fact!), so it's hard to argue that this is a case of biting a newbie. You see, the whole point of WP:BITE is that we shouldn't punish or reprimand people who are breaking rules that they don't know. But you've been around long enough to know something of them, at least. More importantly, though: the editing of a high-use template presupposes familiarity with Wikipedia and its software. If you're a newbie, you shouldn't be editing templates like that anyway. If you had just done it once, and left it be when Anomie reverted you, that would've been one thing. But when you were alerted to the problems your edit caused and still insisted on pushing it through, that's where the problems happen, and you can't in justice claim biting of a newbie for a complex action on an obscure page for which you had been previously warned.

If you need to take a break from Wikipedia, that's fine; I'd encourage you to do that (though it's completely up to you). Sometimes we get all wound up in what we're doing, and we lose ourselves in the heat of the beat and the light. A break is great for fixing that. When you come back, maybe try to see if you can put yourself in Anomie's shoes, and try to honestly figure out how you would've responded if you were them. Maybe that'll give you insight into why your ANI thread was received the way it was. Consider why we'd like someone who has themselves admitted that they're not experts with coding to get their edits vetted before they're made. Keep in mind that it's not a statement about you, your abilities, or your potential; only your current knowledge. It's not permanent, and neither is your lack of expertise; both can be changed in time. Give it some thought, and come back if and when you're ready, if you like. Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 20:05, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I came here to say roughly the same thing. I noticed a few off your edits today, some off which game me the impression you are lashing out to things you may see as inconsistent. From that, I'm getting the impression you are upset with how things went today. If you are, it might be better to stop editing for the day, and come back again tomorrow. If I'm completely off the mark, feel free to ignore this comment (or remove it altogether if that makes you feel better - as long as it hasn't been replied to, or has been restored by another editor). Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:18, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

• I don't have time to read it this moment, but promise to do so when I can. I've posted a new comment at the bottom of User talk:Anomie#Template:Userboxbreak is broken without my modification. That I'm hoping will encourage a civil discussion. Feel free to read it and leave me comments here or there... I'll be following both in hopes to reduce negative feelings on both the main participants feelings in this matter. Technical 13 (talk) 20:22, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

• Okay, I've had some time to read it. I was extremely upset, for him to say "rv breaking change. Test things in a sandbox before screwing around with live templates used on many pages. " THEN me to waste an entire week of my time, to not find what he was talking about because it did not come out that the documentation for {{Usbkbottom}} was wrong and poorly written (because it was the doc for a page that it shouldn't have been redirected to in the first place). After five days of research and experimentation with "Show Preview" in my sandbox, "09:45, April 1, 2013‎ ShoeMaker (talk | contribs)‎ . . (243 bytes) (+8)‎ . . (Undid revision 547144933 by Anomie (talk) Putting fix back. Template is broken without it. Now it works.)" because based on my testing and research, I was in the right. Almost two hours later "11:30, April 1, 2013‎ Anomie (talk | contribs)‎ . . (235 bytes) (-8)‎ . . (Undid revision 548144962 by Technical 13 (talk) - No, your edit broke it.)" to which I immediately responded with a comment on his talk page "11:44, April 1, 2013‎ ShoeMaker (talk | contribs)‎ . . (51,707 bytes) (+489)‎ . . (→‎ Template: Userboxbreak is broken without my modification.: new section)" to avoid an edit war because even after all of my testing, I still assumed good faith on his part. In my post, "No, it is broken without my change... See User:Technical 13/Userboxes/OS/Examples and User:Technical 13/Userboxes/Browser/Examples. " I explained I thought it was broken and then offered him examples of it being broken. Then for him to be that rude and short with me was very upsetting. Technical 13 (talk) 21:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I wanted to save real quick, had to run and get the baby... As far as time as an editor here. I've only been an active editor on this wiki for less than two months (about six weeks to be more specific) consistently. From my first day editing on April 24, 2011 until I started editing regularly in March of this year, I had an average of just over six edits per month. I would hardly say that I am a regular here. Technical 13 (talk) 21:45, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
    • Okay, but here's the question: why didn't you ask Anomie why he reverted you? If you look through and can't find what's wrong with your code, the next step shouldn't be, "Well, I guess that other guy was mistaken"; it should be, "Well, I better ask that other guy what he saw that I didn't. " Really, it's better to just ask right away before even looking through your code, since it'll help you narrow your search. I know that "screwing around" is a harsh phrase, but I know that I get pissed when people mess around in my code without actually testing their changes, and that must've been what it looked like to Anomie. If you had swallowed your pride and asked Anomie why they reverted you, I can pretty much guarantee the entire tone of the conversation would've been different. Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 21:54, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
      • Took me awhile to find it while dealing with my 18 month old simultaneously... Ever since I complained about his unicode rendering ⚔ as 9426 (template doesn't perfectly resemble what I see as is noted on the talk page for the template), all communications and contact with him has been negative, and I don't need more negative in my life. I figured if he had information he wanted me to have, he would have offered it and not made me guess or ask. I didn't expect him to ask or guess, I sent him my links and evidence that my fix for the template was truly a fix and his fix was breaking it. He immaturely insists that he doesn't remember me complaining and requesting him change his signature and it has nothing to do with that. It was barely a month ago and I find that hard to believe. Technical 13 (talk) 23:04, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

* Forgive me if this seems WP:POINTy, but I have exhibited the behavior of "I figured if he had information he wanted me to have, he would have offered it and not made me guess or ask. I didn't expect him to ask or guess, I sent him my links and evidence that my fix for the template was truly a fix and his fix was breaking it. " When asking you about User talk:Writ Keeper/Archives/6#TeaHouse scripts import breaking all my JavaScript. I was very factual, offered you all of the information I had to offer and patiently awaited your response... Technical 13 (talk) 23:13, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

• • There are so many articles that could benefit from improvement, the time and thought might be better spent in article space than here. —Sladen (talk) 23:17, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Well, collaborative editing sometimes means that you have to deal with people you'd rather not. You don't get the luxury of ignoring people you don't want to talk to when it comes to editing high-use templates. If it really, really bothered you, then you could've asked someone else to be a go-between; it's silly, but so is not wanting to ask them in the first place. As for your complaint about their sig; how do you know they ever even saw it, much less took enough note of it to remember about it a month later? The last time they edited the page you linked was in November 2012, and they never participated in the ANI thread either! I don't know why you would assume they're immaturely holding a grudge over something that we have no reason to think they ever even read. Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 00:11, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Actually, now that I look at it, it doesn't look like you've ever interacted with Anomie on Wikipedia before you ran into each other over this template. When you talk about "all communications and contact with him [being] negative", are you mistaking Anomie for someone else? Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 00:27, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
    • That discusion about my signature was spread across a few diff discussions and in one of them he replied and I remember it as being "pound sand you friggin moron I'm not changing my unicod character even if it is an annoyance to you to have to figure out what it is suppose to be" although those weren't the exact words, that's what I remember was the tone. AnywayS, I would have to look it up and I'm in bed for the night as I have to take my 18 month old to a surgeon tomorrow to find out about getting a cyst removed from her forhead. My email keeps dinging and waking me up, I've now shut the ding off. Good night. Technical 13 (talk) 00:45, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
      • I have looked into this and I can confidently say that that is 100% untrue. Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 00:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

At #Encylopedia above I suggested that WP:NOTHERE may apply, and this latest disruption makes me feel that some more formal discussion of Technical 13's future may be warranted. I am particularly irritated because I have wanted to pester Anomie with some technical questions, but have purposefully not done so because I realize that (a) Anomie is very busy and has more useful things to do than answer my questions; and (b) I have not yet done the research to allow me to ask a decent question. Now I see Anomie's talk lit up with misguided accusations. Many editors confuse the community's open nature and high pain tolerance as a sign that they can continue without regard for others indefinitely, so disruption continues. However, Technical 13 needs to learn how to get along with people, very soon. BTW, the discussion at User talk:Launchballer#Your Signature is surreal. Johnuniq (talk) 01:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

As I see it, one of the problems was that {{usbkbottom}} was a redirect to {{userboxbottom}}, and being a redirect, it naturally displayed the documentation for the template which it was pointing to. Unfortunately, {{userboxbottom}} is a template intended for use with a different family of table templates, but both {{usbkbottom}} and {{userboxbottom}} have the same purpose: to close a table (there are several other templates with this purpose, such as {{end}} and {{s-end}}). This purpose is achieved by using the |} wikimarkup, also known as html#the-table-element the </table> tag.

{{usbkbottom}} is now a template in its own right, and it did not have a doc page. I have fixed this by giving {{usbkbottom}} (also {{usbktop}} and {{usbkbreak}}) the same documentation as {{usbk}}, because these four form a closely-related family. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:26, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I know we have had differences in the past Rose, but I want to say thank you. That is how the template should have been right from the start when it was created. Proper creation of that template family would have averted the entire discussion. Technical 13 (talk) 16:34, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Final warning

I saw the closed AN/I thread you started. Coming right after this and in the light of this and this, I am here to warn you that if I see you involved in any capacity with signature-related shenanigans I will block you indefinitely. We are here to write an encyclopedia, not bicker over sigs. This covers resisting reasonable requests to regularise your own sig, complaining about others' sigs, and anything like that. I very much hope you can find more productive areas in which to work; if you need suggestions, I can definitely help you. In the much-unwished-for event that I had to block you I would take the block to AN/I for review. Please, please, let's not go there. --John (talk) 13:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I had to change my signature because of a • because it was an issue for those with vision impairments, and now I appear to be out of line for requesting a signature that looks like aBlindingLight (which I wrapped in a span I had to create just now as to not hurt my eyes) be toned down? This feels like WP:CYBER to me (if it quacks like a duck...). Technical 13 (talk) 14:51, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

• Stop.^{This arguing}
• Look.^{Carefully at what is being written; then read it again}
• Listen.^{To the advice and suggestions being given; take heed}
• Think.^{Before perpetuating this behaviour to the point of a ban}
• …Please.

—Sladen (talk) 15:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of The only stupid question is the question you don't ask

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, introducing inappropriate pages, such as The only stupid question is the question you don't ask, is not in accordance with our policies. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. The page has been nominated for deletion, in accordance with Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. ♦ Tentinator ♦ 14:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Uh, yeah, I don't know what that was about, but the article mainspace is not for stuff like that. General questions about stuff should go to the Reference Desk. (And it's an idiom and a proverb, by the way). Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 14:36, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Writ. I figured I would ask on that one page instead of asking on all of the things it could be (didn't want to be accused of canvasing). The help system on this wiki (and many other mediawiki based wiki's) is poor. It is hard to find the proper Help: or: WP page (the search engine doesn't help much very often) about something. When I do get results by searching for what I want to do, I get a list of hundreds of results, of which none of the first 3 or 4 pages are what I'm looking for, so I give up. Clicking on "help and project" pages doesn't help, I still get all kinds of mainspace, user, template pages etc... Again, thank you and I apologize if my method seemed mis-intentioned, as that was not my intent. Technical 13 (talk) 14:57, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I didn't think you made it with ill intent; that's why I ended up deleting it as a test page, rather than as vandalism. :) Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 15:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate that. Technical 13 (talk) 15:45, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Need to ask some question...

Hello for the first time. i was reading your user page and I saw in you infobox your temperament. How do i found the exact test to know mine. please reply ASAP, Kind Regards Miss Bono (talk) 15:08, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

• Umm.. Are you referring to: Personality type     Guardian Inspector (ISTJ)
• or are you referring to one of my UBXs?

 Extra userbox transclusions removed

?? Which one? Technical 13 (talk) 15:26, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Personality type ;) Miss Bono (talk) 15:34, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

CAN You reply?? :)Miss Bono (talk) 18:54, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOT#CHAT. Wikipedia is not a chatroom, nor discussion-forum. Both of you are making ten-times as many edits in User_talk as in Article space, which does not help in making an encyclopaedia. Please focus and try to get the ratio the other way around. Here are your contributions to Wikipedia articles [1]^{25 edits in total…} —Sladen (talk) 19:08, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

A majority of my User_talk contributions are discussions relating to assisting editors with questions that originated in WP:VPT, WP:TH, and/or WP:HD. Another large chunk of my User space edits are Sandbox projects, User drafts, Template drafts, or userboxes (I AM a member of WP:WikiProject Userboxes after all). The last large chunk are edits to my Special:MyPage/common.css and Special:MyPage/common.js which I assume is permitted and acceptable. As far as your question goes Miss Bono (talk · contribs), try reading the article located at Personality type like i did and you will find the link I used to take a test that gave me the results you see... Heads up, it IS an external site. Technical 13 (talk) 22:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Mobile template for deletion

Hi, I see that you have created Template:Mots as a mobile time-stamp template parallel to the Template:Mosig that I made in 2011. I previously had not known anything about your other templates, don't know what they looked like before they were deleted, or even why they were deleted or by whom. So I was a little stunned that other editors said you were targetting my template for deletion out of "revenge". At the least it seems like a violation of WP:POINT, which might be a good page to read now. Since you have now created a companion to my template which is still up for deletion, and since the tfd ought to be speedy closed as WP:SNOW, would you mind please just retracting it now before it comes to that? Appreciated, Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 22:19, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 23:34, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'm really not an asshat as some others would like to imply that I am. Technical 13 (talk) 23:44, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for abuse of editing privileges. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

Per my final warning just above I have blocked your account indefinitely as you have continued to cause signature-related disruption, as I asked you not to. I shall now raise the block at AN/I. --John (talk) 09:30, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:MobileTimeStamp

Template:MobileTimeStamp has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Chris Cunningham (user: thumperward) (talk) 09:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

BLOCK

See User talk:Technical 13/2013#Final warning and WP: AN/I#Technical 13.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Technical 13/2013 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I was page stalked and harassed by another editor that knows his signature is in violation of policy and is blinding to me, and when I complained, I was banned. I've been actively editing en. wikipedia for just over six weeks now, and a majority of my edits have been building userspace drafts, sandbox edits working on projects, template drafts, and creating userboxes as part of WikiProject userboxes. I'm an active Teahouse editor and have contributed on Village pump (tech) and the help desk. These things have left my "mainspace" edit count fairly low. My purpose and intent on en. wikipedia is to improve the site by contributing to articles and assisting other editors to make their edits more useful and their experience more positive. I was unable to edit my own user talk in order to place any of the appeal templates there due to a redirect issue that has been resolved and the ticket system is returning a database error preventing me from using that method. I'm also a reporter of bugs on bugzilla and want to make the MediaWiki core better.

Decline reason:

You have been blocked for a lengthy history of disruptive editing - your latest spat with Launchballer was merely the straw that broke the back of an already heavily-overburdened camel. If you wish to be unblocked, the community will expect to see some assurances that your approach and attitude will change - as it is, an unblock request that straight-up accuses another editor of stalking and harrassment leaves me in no doubt that such a change isn't likely to occur in the near future. Yunshui  雲‍ 水 12:43, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Technical 13/2013 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I request you review the conversation at User talk:Launchballer#Your Signature where my complaint according to 2 other administrators and other editors is valid. My belief that Launchballer is page stalking me is in regards to his comment where he facetiously gives me permission to make an edit to a template 18 hours after the edit has been made to Template:Usbk of which not only does he not use, he does not use any userboxes of which the template is designed to display. I would say that is a reasonable reason for me to make that assumption. Technical 13 (talk) 12:55, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Unless you address your behaviour here, you will have no chance of being unblocked. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

The above is yet again a near-textbook example of the attitude that got you blocked. Until you accept that you were in the wrong and undertake to avoid this sort of pedantic, tendatious approach to discussion, I can't see you getting unblocked any time soon. I'll leave the template for another admin to review, but I'd be very surprised if it was accepted. While you're considering your next unblock, you'd be well advised to read and inwardly digest the following:

• Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point
• Wikipedia is not about winning
• Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass

and of course:

• Guide to appealing blocks.

Yunshui  雲‍ 水 13:04, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Technical 13/2013 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I'm not here to win, I'm here to create and edit articles and improve the MediaWiki Encyclopedia project. I'm not holding any sticks. I resisted my wants to contribute to the conversation about the signature itself. I admitted when I was wrong and changed my signature multiple times 1, 2, 3, and 4. I have admitted I was wrong and took course of action to rectify the situation as was demonstrated by my closure of a RfD User talk:Technical 13/2013#Mobile template for deletion. I admitted I was wrong in emails to Writ Keeper (talk · contribs) and Anomie (talk · contribs). I just want to continue my work on my userspace drafts and continue to volunteer and help people in WP:HD, WP:TH, and WP:VPT.

Decline reason:

On going through your contribution history for the past couple of weeks, as far as I can see everything you touch, you disrupt; I was genuinely surprised on reading your profile on your userpage that you aren't a young child. Unless and until you show some indication that you understand why people find you so disruptive and will do something to address it, Wikipedia is not the site for you. This is very much a "not now" not a "never", but everything from your disruptive signature to your meddling with templates strongly suggests that you're currently either here purely to goof around, or have a serious lack of understanding of both how Wikipedia works and your own limitations. –  iridescent 15:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Technical 13, if you don't want to have talk page access disabled, you have to stop with the continuous unblock requests. I recommend taking a breather for a bit, then trying an unblock request again at a later date after you have thought over this for a bit. For now, you're not going anywhere by posting unblock request after unblock request, especially judging by the confirmation of your block at AN/I. Vacation9 16:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

While I appreciate your suggestion Vacation9, the consensus seems to be that I don't understand anything. If I am ever to understand what it is they think I don't understand, then I need to ask questions. Eventually, I will either get someone that is patient and open minded enough to spend some time to discuss the issues and work with me to find a reasonable understanding so that the block can be lifted. I've requested assistance from ArbCom and send an email to an admin/arbitrator requesting their help. I'm not an unreasonable fellow, I just want to clearly understand. Is that so much to ask? Technical 13 (talk) 16:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I totally understand and agree with you, however asking questions in unblock requests is not the way to go. Rather, it's a way to get talk page access revoked. Unblock requests must show that you understand why you were blocked, say that you will not do it again, and say you will make positive contributions to Wikipedia. Emailing the blocking admin and talking about it is great, and after you've thought about it feel free to submit an unblock request. Vacation9 16:50, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Do my {{Unblock}} requests not say that?

• My purpose and intent on en. wikipedia is to improve the site by contributing to articles and assisting other editors to make their edits more useful and their experience more positive. I was unable to edit my own user talk in order to place any of the appeal templates there due to a redirect issue that has been resolved and the ticket system is returning a database error preventing me from using that method. I'm also a reporter of bugs on bugzilla and want to make the MediaWiki core better.
• I'm not here to win, I'm here to create and edit articles and improve the MediaWiki Encyclopedia project. I'm not holding any sticks. I resisted my wants to contribute to the conversation about the signature itself. I admitted when I was wrong and changed my signature multiple times 1, 2, 3, and 4. I have admitted I was wrong and took course of action to rectify the situation as was demonstrated by my closure of a RfD User talk:Technical 13/2013#Mobile template for deletion. I admitted I was wrong in emails to Writ Keeper (talk · contribs) and Anomie (talk · contribs). I just want to continue my work on my userspace drafts and continue to volunteer and help people in WP:HD, WP:TH, and WP:VPT.
• In which case I was wrong for asking Launchballer to tone down his blinding signature and comply with Wikipedia:SIG#Appearance and color as well as I was wrong for asking User:Timtrent to fix his signature to include his actual username and comply with WP:SIG#Confusing. I apologize if that is the case and won't do it again. Now, may I please get back to creating and editing articles as well as helping other editors with their questions? Thank You.

I've admitted I was wrong, promised to not do it again, and said will make positive contributions to Wikipedia.

Technical13, I'm not going to decline your unblock request in the hope that you will reconsider. The unblock template is not a means for normal talk page communication. It is a means to request a review of your block. If you have questions or require clarification, please post a normal talk page message. You are still not addressing the issue(s) that resulted in your block and I can assure you that, sooner rather than later, you will lose the ability to edit this page. Please act soon so that you may leave this avenue of communication open. Tiderolls 17:14, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

You claim that I'm not addressing the issue(s), what issue am I not addressing. I assure it it is an oversight that I can not find and presumably never will, so please do tell me. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 17:17, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

We cannot have this discussion while you have a live unblock request that I am in favor of declining. You may leave your unblock request live or you can remove it while we discuss the issues. Tiderolls 17:19, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Follow up. I am at work so my responses may be delayed. This page is being watched by several admins and experienced editors, though, so I do not think there will be any shortage of responses. Tiderolls 17:23, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• First I would raise the issue of the warning that preceded your block. In none of your unblock requests or subsequent messages do I see any reference to that matter. That is the specific issue that resulted in your block. There are a few tangential matters that need to be addressed as well, but it would serve you well to start with John's warning and why you thought it a good idea to go forward in the manner you did. Tiderolls 17:51, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I did respond to that. "I was page stalked and harassed by another editor that knows his signature is in violation of policy and is blinding to me, and when I complained, I was banned. My belief that Launchballer is page stalking me is in regards to his comment where he facetiously gives me permission to make an edit to a template 18 hours after the edit has been made to Template:Usbk of which not only does he not use, he does not use any userboxes of which the template is designed to display. I would say that is a reasonable reason for me to make that assumption. " I felt that if this user felt the need to track down other projects of mine that he had no previous interactions with as best as I can gather from the page histories and the content of the page, and he addresses me with the intent to harass me with a signature that hurts my eyes due to my vision problems, then I have the right to in a direct response to him on that post, after answering his comment, as a side-note ask him to to tone down the brightness and color-scheme that causes me pain. I did not pursue chasing him down to request it, he came after me. Technical 13 (talk) 18:00, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
    • And this is yet another example of the real reason, in my opinion, for your block. When someone tells you that you are wrong, instead of thinking about how you could be wrong, you immediately start to say why you were, in fact, right, and how everyone else was wrong, and you don't back down. This is a consistent theme throughout your editing; your spat with Anomie is another example of it. Anomie told you your changes were breaking things, but you don't listen, you insist to Anomie that they were wrong, and then assume that Anomie is driven by a personal grudge, rather than a desire to protect the encyclopedia. There are other examples that I could pull, but this is a particularly apt one, as you were objectively, inarguably wrong. Your change did break the template, and yet, instead of realizing this or at least asking why Anomie thought the template was broken, you went right ahead anyway and reinserted your changes, apparently without even considering that you could be wrong. The point is that your default attitude towards editing appears to be: "I cannot be wrong; if someone disagrees with me, they're either mistaken or evil. " I appreciate conviction and standing up for yourself, but this is way over the top, and it's wholly incompatible with editing in a collaborative environment, where honest disagreements happen and one must be willing to admit one's mistakes. Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 18:18, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
      • You are right Writ... The way that I word things makes it difficult for others to understand what I am trying to say. Perhaps I can reword my statement above, in the way that I mean it so that it doesn't get misinterpreted as me saying I'm not wrong.
      • Was: "I was page stalked and harassed by another editor that knows his signature is in violation of policy and is blinding to me, and when I complained, I was banned. My belief that Launchballer is page stalking me is in regards to his comment where he facetiously gives me permission to make an edit to a template 18 hours after the edit has been made to Template:Usbk of which not only does he not use, he does not use any userboxes of which the template is designed to display. I would say that is a reasonable reason for me to make that assumption. " I felt that if this user felt the need to track down other projects of mine that he had no previous interactions with as best as I can gather from the page histories and the content of the page, and he addresses me with the intent to harass me with a signature that hurts my eyes due to my vision problems, then I have the right to in a direct response to him on that post, after answering his comment, as a side-note ask him to to tone down the brightness and color-scheme that causes me pain. I did not pursue chasing him down to request it, he came after me. " not a fair response to that issue? Technical 13 (talk) 18:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I edit conflicted with the two of you. No, Technical13, it's not the phrasing. Here's my original post: This is an example of what several admins and experienced editors have been attempting to explain to you over the past few weeks. Someone warns/messages/advises you regarding a situation and your next step is to ignore/resist/battle. Now, it could be that in every instance this has happened you weighed the advice, consulted other editors and read the relevant policy pages to arrive at the conclusion that the warning/advising party was a loon and was not worthy of your attention. Seriously, though, is this possible in as many cases as have arisen for you in your brief tenure? It's much more likely that you need more advice and help than you recognize. That's no sin; ignoring the fact is, though. Tiderolls 18:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• (edit conflict)In addition to what Writ Keeper and Tiderolls said (which I agree with) that's not why you were blocked. You were blocked after you were warned by John on your talk page for meddling with signatures after you were told not to. The TFD incident didn't exactly help your case either. This leads me to believe you don't fully understand why you were blocked, and are instead turning the blame on others. Before an unblock is considered, you need to show you fully understand:
  • The events leading up to John's warning
  • What you did that violated John's warning
  • Why you violated John's warning
• Before you show these, nothing much will happen. Vacation9 18:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Tide, I don't think of it as "ignore/resist/battle. " Instead I think of it as trying to communicate, ask questions, understand, and discuss. The case with Anomie (talk · contribs) was entirely my fault for me getting frustrating and wrongly attributing comments and feelings from someone else to him, and I have apologized for that in an email.

• Vacation9, I responded to a WP:PA against me from an editor that hunted down an edit of mine and harassed me. Is that meddling? Is it not allowed to respond to WP:PAs? Is that considered meddling? If that is the case, I was wrong and I would be happy to instead write myself a JavaScript that will allow me to blacklist people from my view that engage in personal attacks against me. This will ensure that I don't respond.

• Technical 13 (talk) 18:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Technical13, I know you don't perceive the situation as I explained it. My point is that the weight of evidence says, and my own observation is, your perception is not correct. Now, I would not advise anyone to bend over at the slightest suggestion from another editor, but there has to be a middle ground where you can edit here and a collegial, productive environment can be maintained. Tiderolls 19:04, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T48855

• Tide, I am ALL about negotiation and compromise, the problem I have had is that in every "disagreement" involving me, although I am willing (and by nature try to always) keep an open mind and see the big picture and understand the other persons side, they are not willing to do the same and compromise back with me. This frustrates me, and I go to other forums to try and resolve the problems. However, the some of the administrators at the other forums at this point forget that editors are people too, they forget that every request is it's own request, they come in with biased opinions and fail to either recuse themselves if they have grudges or set them aside and contribute to the discussion with a NPOV. I've just come up with a GREAT idea that I'm going to propose on bugzilla. I'm going to request that all signatures be wrapped in a set of classed tags so that those editors with vision problems (like myself) can add a little css or javascript (or have a checkbox that lets it be done server side) to remove custom signatures from everyone. I've seen on WP talk: signatures there was a request to have all custom signatures removed from this site, and my suggestion here would allow those people that think they shouldn't be allowed for anyone if they are not fully customizable and allow for everyone to disable all signature customizations. Does anyone agree this is a good idea? Technical 13 (talk) 19:14, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
  • *sigh* "I'm not the one who blames everyone else and refuses to accept my own mistakes, everyone else is!" Do you not see the irony in that statement? Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 19:20, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
    • Huh? You lost me there Writ as that is not what I said at all. Perhaps I had a poor choice of words (it's my curse). Can I clarify what I said in anyway? Technical 13 (talk) 19:22, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
      • What you said is that it's not your fault that trouble springs up around you (since you're "all about negotiation and compromise...[and] keep[ing] an open mind and see[ing] the big picture" etc.etc.), it's everyone else's fault (since they're "not willing to do the same...[and] forget that editors are people too...and come in with biased opinions and fail to set grudges aside"). This is precisely the attitude I'm talking about. The irony is that this statement, in saying that you're all about seeing the big picture or understanding the other person's side, proves that you're doing exactly the opposite of that, since you're sticking to your guns that you are blameless and it's everyone else at fault, instead of trying to look at it from our perspective, and why we might be saying that the problem isn't everyone else, it's you. Writ  Keeper  (t +  c) 19:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Technical 13: You've been asked, been warned, been blocked, and your signature still contains the "View signature as intended" stuff. Is this something you would like to adjust if given the opportunity? —Sladen (talk) 19:16, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Please review the above post that I'm going to assume you didn't get a chance to because of the fact that your post came in about 4 seconds after I posted mine. I'm willing to remove ALL customization of my signature if I can get/write a javascript that shows ALL signatures as default to me. That would make all equal in my mind, and I would have no more beef (and would be ignorant) to everyone else's signatures. Technical 13 (talk) 19:19, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Technical13, my best advice at this point is do not post about signatures for a minimum of 30 days. Forget about signatures. Do not even post the word "signature". Drop the subject. Tiderolls 19:37, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I've said three times now that I'll remove all customization of my signature and write a script to remove the customization from everyone elses in my view because if I don't see others' signatures, I can't complain about them and I can focus my time to editing my userspace drafts and fixing templates.Technical 13 (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm done here. Tiderolls 19:50, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I thank you for your time Tide. I have a feeling you are frustrated with me, although I don't understand it. In the statement right above yours I AGREE WITH YOU and offer to REMOVE ALL OF MY CUSTOMIZATION and NOT BRING IT UP ON WIKIPEDIA AGAIN any time in the near future (probably ever). Please forgive my shouting. If I am wrong in feeling that you are frustrated with me, I apologize. I just don't know what more I can offer than to agree to everything you are asking me to do. Technical 13 (talk) 19:54, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Comment on Unblock Request. To any admin considering Technical 13's unblock requests, please know that if T13 requests me to do so, I will gladly agree to serve as his "mentor" for purposes of advising him and keeping him on the straight and narrow in his Wikipedia interactions and edits. He does have strong coding skills that we could use. I hope you will consider my offer in evaluating his request to be unblocked (and his dialog above with TideRolls). He wants to do things the right way; he just needs a nudge and a little advice in my estimation. T13, if you agree to accept my offer, please acknowledge immediately below. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

If that is what it takes for me to be able to get back to work on my projects, that is fine. I will accept your offer. Technical 13 (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

If, as it appears, the total sum of the initial difficulty is the claim that this editor cannot read the signature of Launchballer (which I personally have no trouble with) then could he simply not interact with this editor? --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 20:54, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

My first project when I get unblocked is to create a user script so that I will no longer see custom signatures because it seems it doesn't matter if the text is bright yellow on cyan background and flashing with a font size of 24... I'm not allowed to ask people to tone it down or report it. Once my script is finished, I'll never see it so there will be nothing to report for me. Technical 13 (talk) 20:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Technical 13/2013 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

See discussion above, I will assimilate. Technical 13 (talk) 20:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Decline reason:

While I appreciate your attempts to reach a compromise here, I don't think this is going to do the job. You still seem to be really upset by signature issues, to the point where you feel the need to customize special scripts to keep yourself from commenting on them. And even if we ignore the signature issue, we continue to be faced with the issue of your trouble perceiving when your behavior actually is unacceptable to the community at large. This is, I think, what Writ Keeper was trying to make you understand earlier today, when he pointed out that even your attempts to explain how you understand why you were blocked involve denying having done anything wrong.

This isn't a "nope, not ever" type of unblock decline, so I encourage you to keep working with the people trying to help you here to reach a compromise, but before we unblock you I think we need to see more understanding of the underlying issues than you've been able to show us so far. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 21:09, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I'm not upset about any signature issue what-so-ever. I was previously upset about the lack of balance for some to be able to fully configure their signature and others not being able to do so. I was simply offering a solution that is similar to the breathalyser on the ignition of a vehicle owned by someone that has repeatedly been found guilty of operating under the influence. This ensures you and the other administration that it will not be an issue from me again. I don't care about the signature anymore, I just want to get back to editing the projects I was working on. I've made it known that I'm willing to accept Dirtlawyer1's offer to mediate any issues I have in the immediate future and not raise any complaints to anyone myself. I don't know what more I can do. Technical 13 (talk) 21:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Understanding

So, I asked a (rhetorical) question above [2], because I suspected that the response would likely be indicative of your likely response to the wider interaction issue. I pondered that either you would immediately just do it, and reply positively (with a fixed now-shorter signature). Or you would argue it, point to other replies, and make offers/ultimatums—all the while still with the massive sig. I think at this stage I can observe the response and draw my conclusions. Sorry. —Sladen (talk) 00:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I didn't do it? Let me try again. Technical 13 (talk) 00:38, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Excellent. Now we're getting somewhere. Thank you. —Sladen (talk) 00:41, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Like I've been saying, I just want to go back to working on the two projects in my /Drafts sub-directory, the page below that is nominated for deletion because when I wrote it I didn't know ANYTHING about the userspace draft process, and the Template:Infobox NFL player project I've been working on in my spare time all day today using notepad++ locally (I tried to test part of it to see how something worked on MediaWiki but templates don't transclude interwiki, only links do). Technical 13 (talk) 00:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Let's concentrate on some simpler questions. (1) Please could you explain the final warning at User talk:Technical 13/2013#Final warning to me. What did it specifically ask you not to do, which you carried on doing? —Sladen (talk) 00:53, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

"if I see you involved in any capacity with signature-related shenanigans I will block you indefinitely. We are here to write an encyclopedia, not bicker over sigs. This covers resisting reasonable requests to regularise your own sig, complaining about others' sigs, and anything like that. " The keywords there in my eyes are "shenanigans" and "resisting reasonable requests". I do not consider asking someone to tone down their color scheme as it is blinding and painful, and as such I felt it was a reasonable request to ask him politely to do so. However, I was wrong and should have simply filed a complaint on WP:ANI for page stalking, harassment, and the WP:PA I perceive I was subjected to by that user. As a side note, I've been monitoring the discussion on that users talk page and see that he has made an attempt to tone down his signature and am willing to overlook his personal attack and just let it go, I don't care anymore... Just want to be able to edit when I get up in the morning as I am going to bed shortly. Technical 13 (talk) 01:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

…So close. Try answering it again, this time in a single sentence. Without mentioning any irrelevant side-topics or perceptions. —Sladen (talk) 01:05, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

You asked me "Please could you explain", which can't be done in a single sentence and which I did; you want a single sentence, "if I see you involved in ... signature ... I will block you indefinitely. ".

Try using your own words; I don't want a copy and paste or literal quotations. I want to see whether you understand what the final warning was asking of you. —Sladen (talk) 01:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

He dictated that I'm not allowed to complain about anything, and that is fine with me, I won't complain anymore. Technical 13 (talk) 01:17, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Again, I would conclude that you do not (yet) understand the sequence of events that led up to you being blocked nor why it was a problem.. Please self-withdraw the latest {{unblock}} request, and try not to make any more {{unblock}} request for 30 days. —Sladen (talk) 01:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I do believe I fully understand. How is "if I see you involved in any capacity with signature-related shenanigans I will block you indefinitely. " not equal to "you're not allowed to complain about signatures"? Technical 13 (talk) 01:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

If I had complained about the harassment and personal attack, it would have been based on my original previous comment and seen as a retaliatory complaint to push the signature issue, and that would have been seen as signature-related shenanigans. So, I was not allowed to complain about the page stalking, harassment, or personal attack either on top of the signature... What else is there really to complain about. Hence my previous comment of "I'm not allowed to complain about anything". I hope that clears up the confusion. Technical 13 (talk) 01:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Technical 13/2013 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I have demonstrated understanding of the reason I was blocked. Even if I don't entirely agree with it (as I'm not required to per the guide to unblocking), I have agreed to not do it again. As I have stated many times, I simply wish to get back to making useful edits and completing my Userspace drafts which should greatly increase my article edit count and equally lower my Userspace counts I've come to understand is important here. Dirtlawyer1 (talk · contribs) has agreed to mentor me if requested, and although he is on wikibreak we are communicating via email and I believe he is available to comment. Thank you for your consideration. Technical 13 (talk) 03:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Accept reason:

On the condition that any recidivism, in particular related to signatures or a pointed refusal to take a hint, will be met with a swift re-block. Chris Cunningham (user: thumperward) (talk) 15:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

(stalking) Technical 13, I apologise if this is blunt and for wading into this discussion, but can I make a constructive suggestion and suggest a short break from Wikipedia? I'm not convinced by your unblock rationale above - your block was, in my view, because you couldn't work with other editors, and reference to your edit count doesn't convince me you understand that, if I'm honest. I fear that if you keep posting unblock requests, no matter how sincere you might sound, your talk page access will be switched off. I think you need to take a holiday from editing and come back to request an unblock with a clear head. You might also want to consider finding a mentor, as unblock requests tend to be more successful if you've got somebody who signs up to helping you. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I have no issue in working with others. My references to my edit count are based on multiple comments in the discussions leading up to the ban where it is implied that I have no rights to an opinion because I try to draft and test all of my articles, templates in such in my Userspace / sandbox before I send them to mainspace. On the other 4-6 wikis where I'm an administrator-bureaucrat, we have a strict "don't judge a user by his edit count just as you don't judge a book by its cover. " I realize Wikipedia isn't any of those wikis, and the multiple references to my edit counts may be the norm here. However, if I'm blocked, I can't work on improving that ratio (and in fact make the ratio worse by being able to only post here). The point of a block is to prevent edit warring, vandalism, destruction, or disruption of the site. If an editor that has been blocked for making a few templates that were deemed unneeded and asked a few other editors with signatures that don't meet the requirements and quality standards set by policy agrees to leave those things alone and not be disruptive and simply work on the projects in front of them, then there is no justification for leaving them blocked. If you read above Dirtlawyer1 offered and I accepted him as a mentor. Technical 13 (talk) 10:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay. I would still cancel the above block request for the minute, wait a while, then make it again and state explictly in it that Dirtlawyer1 will mentor you. I suggest 14 April, when he gets back from the wikibreak announced on his talk page! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:22, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• Rithchie333, last night before I removed the previous {{unblock}} request and created that new one at the bottom of the conversation, I considered Sladen's advice, specifically went over the rules for unblocking (yet again), and thought about whether I had complied to the ones to do with my specific reason for being blocked. After re-reading all of the discussion on this page and parts of discussions on the many other pages, deemed that I have more than adequately complied with addressing all of the requirements of the guide to unblocking. After careful consideration of all of those facts, I decided that I would post a new unblock request and iterate all of that (which I believe above does, although I was rather tired by the time I wrote and and intend to proof-read it this morning to make sure). I'm in belief that any reasonable and neutral administrator that reads my most current unblock request will agree that I have been congenial and complied with all of the requirements to which are required to be unblocked, and unblock me. I also decided that the above would be my last unblock request directed to the administrators, and if it was to be denied despite my full willingness to comply, my best bet will be to submit future requests to the arbitration committee. I feel reasonably comfortable that the issues surrounding me and this block/unblock will not need to be escalated to that level. I thank you for your comments and advice Rithchie333, and I hope that your day is as sunny as mine is.
• To the reviewing administrator: I want to make it clear that my declaration of intent to go to the arbitration committee is not in anyway a threat. I simply feel that if despite my doing everything I have been asked and demonstrating understanding of the chain of events, with my agreement to not be disruptive in any way, and my continued pleas to be able to continue my work and be productive in improving the overall quality of the site which are the requirements of being unblocked, than nothing else I say or do will be convincing and there needs to be another party involved in this issue. Furthermore; I want to make clear that regardless of your decision in this matter, I appreciate you taking the time to review my request. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 12:02, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• Despite the sole interaction I have had with this editor being one where he poked me with a stick, I have a belief that his contributions can, for the most part, be valuable. Since there is agreement to avoid the areas where he has been seen to be at best awkward and at worst downright provocative, I would support a cautious unblock with a condition of mentoring, and an instruction that he is walking on eggshells for a period. I would prefer his efforts to be in the creation and editing of articles instead of working in template or other spaces, though his own user space is acceptable. I'd also like to see him guided to produce an easier to navigate talk page instead of myriads of subpages and arcane redirects. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 12:20, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I second the suggestion of mentoring. However, your claim of "myriads of subpages and arcane redirects" is entirely unfair. His talk page was redirecting to to /2013 for er... comments from 2013. There are also the subpages /2012 and /2011. That is not complicated. — Hex (❝?!❞) 12:31, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• The issue of my archival system won't be an issue very much longer if the MW:Flow project gets put into place according to MW:Talk:Flow#Auto-archiving 21039 as my system won't work. Technical 13 (talk) 12:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm a page stalker, too. Sorry for butting in, but I figure it doesn't help if I remain silent and the matter goes to arbitration. I was going through your edit history. On March 2 you created a page called "Shadow Network. " This page was promptly nominated for speedy deletion by User:Grammarxxx using Twinkle, probably because the page tripped an automated anti-abuse filter. I'm not seeing any record that you contacted that user to discuss the matter, nor that you contested the issue on AFD. You did, however, add to the page a few times before it was eventually deleted.

The "Shadow Networks" page was created on March 2. Two days later was the beginning of this css&diff=prev&oldid=542089392 Stuff.

I'm not an admin so it doesn't really matter what I think of you. But I think other people would like to have an explanation for your behavior. It is much easier for an administrator or arbitrator to have peace of mind that you won't be disruptive in the future if they understand what set you off in the first place.

And I know you won't listen to me, but I second the suggestion that you take a break and come back. Cheers. Mattj2 (talk) 13:32, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are getting at or asking Matt... I created the article (again before I learned about userspace drafts), it was deleted. Per your own link to this revision of my talk page(which it seems to be in the wrong year somehow) the delete nominator says "A tag has been placed on Shadow network requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. " I did not contest the deletion based on the rationale, it was fair. Instead, I Reworded using my own words. (per the edit summary). I'm not sure where you are going with your reference to "this css&diff=prev&oldid=542089392 Stuff" as that was a project entirely unrelated to the Shadow networks project, a topic that has been discussed exhaustively and there is no need to stir it up again. Technical 13 (talk) 13:50, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Look I'm sorry. I had a perfectly good theory worked out about how you were really upset about that article being deleted but that clearly isn't how it happened at all. Oh, well. I wasn't intentionally trying to make anything worse. I'm going back to the shadows now... Mattj2 (talk) 14:11, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

No need to apologize, you had a theory in your head (albeit based on an assumption of bad faith). You decided to bring it up here and now, instead of a month ago when it happened. I'm glad that I was able to clarify the chain of events and help you understand what happened in regards to that article, although I kind of wish you would have brought it up to me sooner if you felt it was an issue. I'm not particularly offended, and I hope it is as sunny and beautiful out where you are as it is here. Technical 13 (talk) 14:20, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Unblocked

I'd strongly advise you to try your hardest in future to heed whatever advice you're given by other editors, ideally in the first instance. Chris Cunningham (user: thumperward) (talk) 15:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to thank those who decided to unblock you. I am willing to offer you help should you feel you need it, but I would prefer you to approach me rather than my choosing to jump in and offer it unbidden.

One thing to know is that every long term successful editor here has made mistakes at first, and that making mistakes is fine. Its how we handle ourselves after errors that is the making or breaking of us. Please now enjoy working here, create and edit articles that meet Wikipedia's standards and have fun. I would avoid working in contentious ares until you have won your spurs. That is the sole piece of unsolicited advice I will give you. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, you're unblocked. Good stuff. I'm just going to reiterate what Chris has said - you're effectively on parole. You need to get your mentoring sorted out, get working on some articles, and just listen to what people have to say, as if you manage to get blocked again, it will be for a lot longer. Best of luck, anyhow. By the way, it's been snowing here :-( Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Good for you. I have my own !@#$ to deal with but I'm glad to see you have supportive mentors and people who care about you. At the end of the day that is really what matters. Best. Mattj2 (talk) 19:42, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Earlier, I knew perfectly well that what you did in the past was likely to get you in trouble and I didn't do anything to prevent it, and that's something I'm going to have to live with. So. If you'd like my help or advice I'll do what I can, and otherwise I'll leave you alone. Have a good weekend. Mattj2 (talk) 20:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Matt, I have no idea what you are talking about. Feel free to use the link in the sidebar and send me an email and explain it, and I'm happy to help you with whatever your "own !@#$" refers to. Otherwise, please stop adding to a discussion on my talk page that I consider closed discussion. Happy editing. Technical 13 (talk) 20:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Not My Turn to Die: Memoirs of a Broken Childhood in Bosnia for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Not My Turn to Die: Memoirs of a Broken Childhood in Bosnia is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Not My Turn to Die: Memoirs of a Broken Childhood in Bosnia until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Drmies (talk) 15:03, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I contest this deletion on the grounds that the manuscript is notable enough to be required reading for humanity classes pertaining to genocide by professors at universities. Due to RL and other issues, I've not yet had time to complete the article, and request worst case scenario it be placed in User:Technical 13/Drafts/Not My Turn to Die (book) as a userspace draft until such a time as I can edit it and complete it. Thank you for your consideration. Technical 13 (talk) 15:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I copied this comment to the deletion discussion for you. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you... I VERY much appreciate that as it would have been ignored otherwise. Technical 13 (talk) 18:12, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not getting involved in the s*******e business, but if it does go west, I'm prepared to dig it up for you when everything (and everyone) calms down. Peridon (talk) 20:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you... I very much appreciate that. I'd send you a barnstar if I could. :) Technical 13 (talk) 20:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. Now, DO calm down. Relax. It's only an encyclopaedia. (This bit applies to anyone else reading this, too. You have been told.) Losing one's rag doesn't get one anywhere. No, it does. Somewhere one does not want to be. Take a day out. Talk to the missus. (Or talk to someone else's missus if you prefer and are brave...) When you post next, address the problem coolly. If nothing else, it annoys people. (I remember one of my mates at school being told off by a teacher. At least, that's what was supposed to be happening. My mate simply agreed with everything the teacher said. We had great difficulty keeping our faces straight.) OK? Remember that whatever the rights and wrongs are, you can't win if you lose your cool. Maybe a compromise will sort things. After all, you have something in common already. You don't like each other. A point of agreement. When you've cooled build on it. Constructively, not destructively. (And this also applies to others...) (I think I'm going to start a website for dispute handling...) Peridon (talk) 21:02, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox NFL player questions for User:Dirtlawyer1

Dirt, can you find out how your group feels about the categorization ...currentteam parameter articles... vs possibly ...current players...? Technical 13 (talk) 01:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Technical 13/2013. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Richard France

Re: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 March 30#Referencing help needed. Since you were blocked, I asked GB fan to send me the copy that you posted at Richard France/sandbox. The text and footnotes are now in the review queue at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Richard France, with a note in the edit summaries acknowledging your help. Thank you for spending time on this. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:40, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

That is fine. Looks like the AfC request was declined. May I suggest fixing the formatting before resubmitting? I think it would have a much better chance of being accepted if the reviewer could see what the (near) finished version will look like instead of the poorly formatted version there now. Just a thought. Technical 13 (talk) 16:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

No, it was declined on March 20 when the footnotes were missing. I'll wait to see what the next reviewer says. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:39, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

New article creation, etc.

Hey, T13. Glad to see you finessed the last unblock request. Let me know if you have any questions about anything. I suggest you keep your head down for awhile, and let the clouds pass.

I saw that you have a pending article for creation. I've created a fair number of new articles, including proper stubs and starts, as well as full-blown lists and articles. I was recently granted the "autoreviewer" user right, which means I am trusted to properly create new articles, and my new creations are no longer "autopatrolled" for compliance. You may want to peruse my list of new article to get a feel for what is acceptable: [3]. I'm happy to help in any way with your new article efforts, including reviewing them and helping you take them live without going through the new articles for creation incubator.

I'm leaving town tomorrow afternoon, but I should still be available by email at times while I'm traveling. I'll be back and available "full-time" again on the 14th. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any articles I've requested review for creation. Technical 13 (talk) 17:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

TeaHouse Question

Check it out, please! :)   Miss Bono  (zootalk) 19:15, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Blocked Userbox

Hi, I spoke to you yesterday about your block on IRC. I noticed your new userbox, now I'm not going to do anything or report you, I'm just here to offer a friendly bit of advice - your new userbox is already raising eyebrows, a block or ban isn't anything to boast about, I think you're going to find it causes you unexpected difficulty in editing, people might well pick on you when they see you've already been blocked, or you'll find you're more likely to be blocked by an administrator, especially if they think that's what you're looking for, and who could blame them, when you've created a userbox. I'd ask you tag it for deletion and have it removed from your userbox page. Cheers. Nick (talk) 20:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I included in the original edit summary that it is not a boast or any type of bragging and I have a specific purpose in mind for it. I just need to find the right wording. As I was just walking home from the bus stop, I was thinking of rewording it something like: "This user resolved his {{{duration}}} block in (timespan). Guide to becoming unblocked by another editor and Guide to becoming successful on Wikipedia. " The reason I want to do this is because some of the forms and guidelines that are written by the administrators are too lengthy and are hard to read. Also, some of the templates and forms that are required to be filled out I'm afraid may only make sense to people who have dealt with them often (like the RfCU boilerplate). I am creating it as a way to offer my assistance to those that may be having difficulties with navigating the system. If I receive enough other reasonable requests to give up trying to help others and get rid of the userbox (and likely the guides by then), then I will have no problem deleting all of those things. Technical 13 (talk) 20:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I can tell you clearly that I am surprised and disappointed in this behaviour, which, whatever you plan for it, appears as a slap in the face to those who trusted you. These userboxes display a set of behaviours that are unwelcome in a collaborative community. Should you be blocked again I will not support the lifting of that block. I feel slapped in the face for even considering recommending that you be unblocked, and I feel I can no longer assume good faith in any of your dealings here simply because of them. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 21:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I was simply hoping to offer an outlet to help people. I'll delete them if they are upsetting. That was not my goal. Technical 13 (talk) 21:56, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

You must make your own decisions. To deploy them at all was an exhibition of unacceptable behaviour in my view. I am one voice. I may be wrong, but you have done yourself no favours with me. Now I do not matter, but I am an ordinary editor, as are you. There are a great many people like me, none of whom are out to get you, but many of whom would react as have I. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:00, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

The template is already gone, and I'll work on creating the redlinked guide/help pages I suggested above first. Like I said, I'm here to help people and improve the wiki and the quality of articles. I'm not here to bicker or cause a ruckus, quite frankly I'm too old for that. Technical 13 (talk) 22:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

May I refer you to Ritchie333's comments after you were unblocked. Articles should be your concern. Maybe, when you get enough experience here, just maybe your help and advice on this topic might be worth creating. Right now I counsel you to walk away from that project and edit articles. We are her to make an encyclopaedia, not to write help text. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Encyclopedia

Your recent comment at VPT is not suitable so soon after a "last chance" unblock. What is the purpose of that comment? Why the smiley? Is it to explain that you are right and the other user is wrong? Particularly when following the nasty interaction that occurred earlier (see ANI archive), such a comment (despite its mildness) is unnecessary drama. Before commenting on anything (and before any edit), please ask what benefit the edit would have for the encyclopedia. If none, do not make the edit. Plenty of edits happen on talk pages that don't directly benefit the encyclopedia, but given the background, it would be very desirable for you to strictly follow best practice.

Even this edit shows a misunderstanding about Wikipedia because the edit summary "Removed new Userbox designed to help people" shows an unhealthy interpretation of the discussion at #Blocked Userbox above. That edit summary is saying "the editor who recommended this be removed can't understand the simplest thing, and I'm doing this under strong protest". If you do not understand why people are recommending things, please ask. Editors should not have a combative attitude. Johnuniq (talk) 00:54, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

"What is the purpose of that comment?" To point to a small comment that was sandwiched in between two larger comments that may have been missed causing a lack of understanding of my answer.

"Why the smiley?" To express that I was not upset and as a closing "handshake" if-you-will on the discussion.

"Is it to explain that you are right and the other user is wrong?" No.

"Particularly when following the nasty interaction that occurred earlier (see ANI archive), such a comment (despite its mildness) is unnecessary drama. " You missed the memo: The case with Anomie was entirely my fault for me getting frustrating and wrongly attributing comments and feelings from someone else to him, and I have apologized for that in an email. <-- Where I admitted I was entirely wrong and have apologized with that user.

You've read #Blocked Userbox above, but have you had the chance to read: User talk:Thumperward#Oh dear. T13 and User talk:Timtrent#T13 where there was more discussion about it. Once I have completed the accompanying self-help/guide pages, I hope to bring the userbox back at some point (after discussion with others) to serve it's purpose as it was originally intended. Either way, I've set that project aside for the here and now.

I'm trying to be as helpful as I can and I'm not trying to be combative at all. I thank you for discussing your concerns with me directly and hope that I have been able to satisfactorily answer your questions. I hope you have a better day than I'm about to have (I have back problems which is why I picked a job where I can sit and work on computers, however we just got a shipment of ~50 new computers in that I have to unpack, inventory, and distribute... I'm going to be SO sore tonight). Technical 13 (talk) 12:03, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

The WikiProject Video Games Newsletter, Q1 2013

The WikiProject Video Games Newsletter
Volume 6, No. 1 — 1st Quarter, 2013
Previous issue | Index | Next issue

Project At a Glance
As of Q1 2013, the project has:

• 154 Featured Articles
• 53 Featured Lists
• 7 Featured Topics
• 5 Featured Pictures

• 43 A-Class Articles
• 589 Good Articles
• 9 Good Topics

---

Content

• Changes to Featured and Good content
• News items and announcements

• Feature: "A-class: Is It Worth It?"
• Interview: Teancum

---

Project Navigation

• VG Project Main pages

  • Main project – talk
  • Project category – talk
  • Portal – talk

  VG Project Departments

  • Assessment – talk
  • Cleanup – talk
  • Peer review – talk

   

  • Reference library – talk
  • Newsletter – talk
  • Video game images – talk

To receive future editions of this newsletter, click here to sign up on the distribution list.

Not My Turn to Die (book)

User:Technical_13/Drafts/Not My Turn to Die (book) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hiya! I just discovered the (now closed) AfD for this and will add a few sources that I've found to the article, so if you notice someone poking at it then that'd be me. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

• I didn't know if this college paper review would be usable or not. [4] Most aren't, but it did win an award- although I'm not sure how notable the award is. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:10, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
  • It won the "Best College Newspaper" with the Nebraska Collegiate Media Association on Facebook. I can't find any other site for the association. Makes me think they are not notable enough to make the The Eagle a verifiable source. Technical 13 (talk) 12:21, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
• Then there's this BlogCritics review, although I'm slightly skeptical of them as a source. [5] The only reason I'm even slightly considering it is because the bio for the reviewer might make her into an exception. Doubtful, but it's something to look at. Not including the Monsters and Critics review, I've found four decent sources. One is an article about the author in relation to the book, one is a review from a peer reviewed journal, one is from an institute that sounds fairly legit, and one is from the Financial Times. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:19, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Blogs are generally not an accepted source of information, although it is possible that a post on a blog may carry enough references that may be followed to more reliable sources. In this one however, I see none. :( Technical 13 (talk) 12:21, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

• Kind of what I was leaning towards, unfortunately. I was hoping that maybe if I got someone else to look at it, this would turn out to be the exception to the rule even though I know it isn't. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 05:48, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Not My Turn to Die- Memoirs of a Broken Childhood in Bosnia.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Not My Turn to Die- Memoirs of a Broken Childhood in Bosnia.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:34, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges

-- — Keithbob • Talk • 13:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi, finally think I have worked out how to talk to you direct. I really am supremely rubbish with computers, I'm like one of the apes at the beginning of Kubrick's 2001. I don't know how to send you a medal or anything. But I do appreciate you taking my issue seriously. all the best. 77.98.160.136 (talk) 23:03, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Different opinion on a Teahouse Question

Hi, Donald. I wanted to let you know that I'm posting an alternate opinion on the Templates...again thread at the Teahouse. I wanted to assure you that I just expressed my opinion; I'm not attacking you or how you answered. See my views in the Host Lounge archive for more. Take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 01:06, 6 April 2013 (UTC) (PS: Post any answer/comments here; I'll watch your talk page for a few days.)

While I generally agree with your assessment, my suggestion is based on past experiences with that editor. She has exhibited a severe lack of patience in the not too distance past, and I even asked one of her WikiProject colleagues to offer her a little more hand holding and request her be a little more "virtuous" in regards to patience ^here. I was just thinking that she should have a little more guidance using that particular template, someone willing to be immediately available when she was trying to get it to work that she could ask what is this or that and get an immediate reply as to not get too frustrated. Cheers and happy editing, I'm going back to bed, too dang early here but the baby woke me up (5am)... Technical 13 (talk) 10:13, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I read more of Miss Bono's talk page and glanced at her history. I see what you mean. DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 15:01, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Ukexpat's talk page.
Message added 15:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

ukexpat (talk) 15:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

question

u invited me on teahouse. thank u can i ask any ques about editing there? i will be answered? do i need to do something to join there?Arja36 (talk) 20:38, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

You can ask any question there, and I'm fairly confident that one of the hosts knows the answer to your question, or who to ask to get an answer for your question. The trick is to try and add as much relevant detail to your questions as possible. If you're having trouble with a page, tell us which page (linked if you can). Technical 13 (talk) 20:44, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

request

thank you for replying to my wikiproject question. u provided me the real answer. but in your reply it was written TALKPAGE STALKER. i read about that talkpage stalker. i want to ask whether u are tracking me or keeping an eye on my contributions, if it is the case i will request u not to track or follow me. i like working editing but not if some person keeping vigilance on me. sorry if i am wrong in my view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arja36 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not watching your page. Actually, it was NerdFighter's talk page where I saw your question to him and decided to check out the original question and leave the {{Tps}} reply. It simply is a way that some people use to say, "Hey, I don't mean to butt in, and if I am way off base, feel free to ignore me, but..." ;) Technical 13 (talk) 21:12, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

if that is the case its ok. thanks for checking my question — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arja36 (talk • contribs) 21:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Host profile featuring

Hi there Technical 13. Just letting you know that I've updated the HostBot scripts that feature hosts as per our discussion at the Teahouse. However, in order to feature your profile, I had to edit your section heading. The section heading for your profile needs to match you username exactly (inside the noinclude tags) in order for HostBot to see it. I made this change for you, but feel free to revert me if you'd rather list your alias than appear in the featured host gallery. Cheers, - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 22:33, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure how the bot works, so I'm going to ask what may seem like a silly question... Currently, my name is listed as:

== <noinclude>Technical 13</noinclude> ==

Would the bot still notice it like this:

== '''<noinclude>Technical 13</noinclude>''' <small>(AKA ShoeMaker)</small> ==

I would think that if the bot is just looking for the content between the <noinclude>...</noinclude> then it would work. Otherwise, I'll see if I can come up with something else. :) Technical 13 (talk) 23:16, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, one more idea... What if I...

<span style"display: hidden(or none);>
== <noinclude>Technical 13</noinclude> ==
</span>
== <noinclude>'''Technical 13''' <small>(AKA ShoeMaker)</small></noinclude> ==

Would that work? Technical 13 (talk) 23:19, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Heh. Not a silly question at all—sometimes even I'm not even sure how the bot works ;) In this case however, it should be relatively easy to test what HostBot will see. To check whether a host has a profile, the bot makes a request to the API for some metadata about the sections on the page. It then reads the line (section title) and index (section #) parameters from the XML data that is returned. The API ignores certain markup (in this case, noinclude tags) but processes other markup (like ''' as HTML. I'm not exactly sure what markup gets ignored, but you can test it by changing how your username is displayed in the section header, and then clicking the API link. If anything other than your bare username appears after line=, HostBot will probably not see your profile. Cheers, - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:26, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah... I tried a handful of stuffs, and some of them visually worked, but the api didn't see them either and others the api saw both, but there was still an extra bottom-border I couldn't get rid of... oh well.. not a big deal. Technical 13 (talk) 00:02, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Follow-up to VPT request

Hi, many moons ago (well before all the signature drama), I asked for some help over at TVP about forcing the article title for new posts to the BLP noticeboard and you kindly proposed some code. In fact I realized that this would not solve the problem of people typing omg so-and-so's article says she's a lesbian as a title, so I finally came up with the solution of modifying the template {{BLPN_notice}}, and I am waiting for feedback on it form the others editors who help out at BLPN. Here's my version.

I sincerely believe that you are here to help out, just avoid getting into wrangles over itty-bitty stuff and you should be fine, I think you have a lot of technical know-how to share. May I suggest that you make your edit summaries more concise however? You tend to write very long ES or continue the conversation in the edit summary, which is not what they are for, and they clutter up the watchlists of the people watching those pages (for example I have VPT and the Help Desk and your TP on my WL and sometimes you write 2 or 3 lines of ES). See WP:ES for general guidelines and this page for a handy page of common abbreviations used in edit summaries. Thanks again for the help and happy editing. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

query

hi bro, i have found interest in wiki project trains and want to have userbox for it on userpage indicating this user is member of this wikiproject train. can u tell me what i have to write for it? Arja36 (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Try {{User Trains WikiProject}}—Redrose64 (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, what Rose said, as that is currently the only userbox template I could find for that project. Besides, she would would know better than I being that she is a member of that project. :) Technical 13 (talk) 23:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Martin Lamb

I saw you had a good go at tidying this one. I stumbled on it and had a look at the existing reference, and couldn't make head nor tail of it. Did you have any better luck? I flagged it {{FV}} in the end and found another one so it passes BLP needs. Still not happy with the article, but what can one do. I tend not to remove pseudo-citations like the one I failed to solve, simply because they were, once, valid. I treat themas historic info, like a {{dead link}}, which is, broadly, what it is.

Nice to bump into you in article space. I often end up in weird articles, ones I have no interest in at all, because they present me with a diverting challenge. One such is List of gymnasts where I set myself the herculean task of enhancing the format to give references for every member, Almost managed, too! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:34, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

That led me to a further thought. With your precision of attention to detail, the list of gymnasts article may need some help. The talk page there has two thoughts from me, currently at the foot. One is about the redlinked gymnasts, the other about national flags. When the Village Pump folks come back with an answer about flags we will either need to redeploy them everywhere, or undeploy (is that a word) them where they are, replacing them with bland country names. I was wondering if you might have a clue how that might be done with the minimum of labour.

The second area is the swathe of redlinks. An enthusiast has placed them there. I'm concerned that many are genuine nonentities, though a few have merit and do not yet have articles. Can you think of a semi-automated way to check and then remove the nonentities, leaving the notable in situ? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 10:05, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, I landed there via the "random article" link. I was just bumping through some articles running citation bot and wikEd formatting (I learned on that one I have to be careful with letting wikEd capitalize things because it capitalizes argument names too, which I intend on asking the wikEd people about today. Was just hitting a couple before bed last night and didn't have the time. I actually didn't even look at the article much to check references. I could go back and take a peak. I intend to do a few more citation bot/wikEd cleanups today, and perhaps some more Twinkle flagging. I'm not real good with what should be tagged with what with Twinkle yet, so I am trying to ease into it slowly and get a feel for it. I was a little upset that this tagging was removed by the page creator two edits after I tagged it without any appearance of the issues being fixed, and I'm going to go back and re-check it today. At the time, it wasn't a notable article, but I was giving some lee-way seeing that it was currently being worked on actively. I'll tag it for deletion today if it still isn't meeting standards. Should I use XfD or PROD? I need to see what the difference between the two are. I doubt it would qualify for any CSD. I'll take a look at your gymnast thing and get back to you here in about an hour (need to catch a bus first). As to the redlink thing. I could probably do some of that with the help of AWB, but I've not been approved yet due to the blocking thing. I'll be reapplying in the next month or so. Technical 13 (talk) 11:13, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Random Articles is a great way to find useful and interesting things to do. I use it when I want a mindless diversion in areas I have never been to before. WIth your tagging example, I half agree with it. It's a content fork. Whether it is a valid article remains to be seen, but I think it has merit, just. The tiny article is extracted from List of ecoregions in the United States (WWF), and looks to be an improvement. I; d leave it for others to judge, by which I mean it is an article that I would have been hesitant to tag and would be hesitant to propose for any sort of deletion. It looks to be a useful and referenced article, but it needs better inbound linking, presumably from the source page. Doing that without upsetting those on the source page by messing the format up might be a challenge. What I; d be inclined to do is to ask on that talk page of there is merit in a further column to link to sub articles that go into more precision on the regions.

PROD and XFD have subtly different uses. On can always PROD an article with a decent rationale. I use it as a big hint to people to edit the article to enhance it enough to be valid to remain. XFD can then be used after a contested PROD if one feels insufficient work has been done to save the article. I was very hesitant in my early days to make ether proposal. I chose, instead, to participate in discussions on specific articles to leanr the acceptable and unacceptable uses.

Don't worry about a fast reply. I have to go to work in a moment.

One other thought: The only thing to take personally in Wikipedia is praise. Never be upset or disappointed in the actions or words of other editors, even when you are right. Accept them as they are, move ahead, and smile a lot. That this reversion happened is precisley that, a reversion that happened. You gave your tagging a lot of thought, they disagreed. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 11:30, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I looked at the article again (the one this section is about) and wikEd added a space in the URL of the first ref effectively breaking the link. I have fixed it. Personally, I wouldn't consider him notable, and the last edit before I had a go at cleaning up some of the formatting was four months ago. Thinking of tagging it WP:PROD. I'm working on a comment on your gymnasts talk page right now. :) Technical 13 (talk) 12:18, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

We learn deletion criteria as we go. I see why you PRODed lamb, and I see why he is declared to be notable. This class of person comes into the "Notable by default" group. He isn; t, not really, but he is because of what he is. Schools are a similar minefield. The wisdom of crowds is not always to be trusted. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:28, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I truly understand why you have nominated it for deletion and have left a comment in the discussion. I find your logic unassailable, but I fear you will never win this fight It is unwinnable. I've lost many myself. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 19:17, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't fully expect to win. Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a contest to be won. However, by nominating this article, the responses and feedback may better help me understand the reasoning, as it seems to have done for you. Sometimes the best way to learn is to do. Technical 13 (talk) 19:30, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Works fine for me :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 20:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I am heartened to see that others agree that Lamb is not inherently notable. Time will tell, of course. Wikipedia is a peculiar 'place'. LofG talk page has a positive result on flags, by the way. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

It is rare that a deletion discussion in an area often hotly contested ran both without heat and to a common sense conclusion. We have far too many articles retained because of some misguided view on inherent notability. I'm pleased my first reaction was incorrect. Wikipedia does not often provide surprises in this type of area. Good nomination. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:08, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

LOL Perhaps you can cite this in future nominations of inherent notability articles? "I would like to direct the discussion to the case of Technical 13 v Martin Lamb..." J/K, I know WP:NOTCOURT. Technical 13 (talk) 13:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Reformatting section headers

Hey, T13! I've noticed that, when you answer questions at the Teahouse, you're reformatting the section title, changing the spacing, capitalization, whatever. When you do that, it can break the automatic section link that's placed in edit summaries. So, can you not do that? Thanks! Writ  Keeper  ⚇♔ 21:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

wikEd does that... I'll try to be mindful of it. Technical 13 (talk) 21:29, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I figured it was something like that. Not a huge deal, just bear it in mind if you can. :) Writ  Keeper  ⚇♔ 23:05, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Holistic management

Thanks for the help!Redddbaron (talk) 22:12, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

The request has been submitted for it to be moved to Holistic management. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 22:16, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

signature

I have changed my signature to make it less obtrusive. I hope I didn't do anything incorrectly, but I feel I had better ask. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 16:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Looks fine to me; although, the previous version I helped you with looked fine and didn't violate anything listed on WP:SIG either. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 17:11, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it may have been fine per the rules, but it stood out too much. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 17:24, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: David Bennett Cohen

Hello Technical 13. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of David Bennett Cohen, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: The article makes a credible assertion of importance or significance, sufficient to pass A7. Thank you. ϢereSpielChequers 20:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikibreak

Hey Technical 13, I'm going on a long Wikibreak so I won't be able to mark your CVUA for a bit. Sorry about that! nerdfighter 22:57, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

No worries... I'm taking one as well to get caught up on some of my college school work... The only thing I'll be doing on wikipedia is research and working on my personal scripts I've been making. Technical 13 (talk) 23:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Please don't "fix" what isn't broken

Hi! Please don't "fix" what isn't broken. Quotes are optional in WP:NAMEDREFERENCES unless unusual characters are used, so going round adding them, as you did at François Robichon de La Guérinière, is not so much a fix as a pointless waste of time. It would have been far more useful to correct a couple of the more obvious typos in that article, for example. I see that many editors have already made suggestions to you, so please forgive me for making more:

• If wikiEd is causing you to make mistakes, such as those that at least two editors have pointed out to you above, then you should probably stop using wikiEd
• Successfully using a bot in such a way that it does not annoy other editors probably demands more experience than you currently have; you might think about stopping that
• You might also think about paying a little more attention to the advice you've already been given by others before giving too much more yourself

Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:21, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

• "What Wikipedia needs most is editors of articles. Even if it's grammar and spelling, that; s good. Find citations for articles where citations are absent. Improve bare links with full citations. "—Fiddle Faddle (user: timtrent)
• "I implore you to devote more time to the simple improvement of articles"—Chris Cunningham (user: thumperward)
  • I'm simply doing what I was advised to do by another editor and an administrator. Improve grammar, spelling, punctuation, verifying references, cleaning up references, tagging pages, fixing links, etc... If I have offended you by my edit to François Robichon de La Guérinière, I apologize and will leave that article alone as it seems to be "yours". Technical 13 (talk) 23:50, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

• This seems like something and nothing to me. Not everyone agrees with every edit. That is their absolute right. I stand by my advice to improve articles in any way one is able. The best way to learn how to edit here is to edit here. Wikipedia needs editors of articles. Some will improve punctuation, others citations, others spelling. Some may improve all three. Others will enhance the article by huge leaps. Some have appalling words choice, poor spelling, poor phrasing. Others are excellent. What matters above everything else are the articles. So consider what your critic has to say, see what can be learned from it, and take those learnings on board. You have the right to disagree with the advice given by any of us. The important thing with all advice is to understand it, to compare it with the community policies, guidelines and practices, and to accept that which is valid, and to consider what may be extracted from the remainder. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:11, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I actually did check WP link that he offered, and have decided to continue wrapping reference names in quotes. The article he mentions says that although optional on strictly alpha-numeric (with a few punctuation characters), it is required on other with certain characters. I like uniformity on things like these and having them all in quotes makes it uniform and doesn't hurt anything. Upon re-reading my previous comment, I may have sounded defensive or offensive, and that was not my intent either. I apologize if that was the case. Happy editing!!! Technical 13 (talk) 13:24, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• As a matter of good practice I have always used " characters to wrap named references in. It saves wondering why it has failed when the unusual circumstances occur. <ref name="name">{{cite web|url=fake url|title=fake title|accessdate=11 April 2013}}</ref> is n example of a citation filled in by Wikipedia's own citation mechanism in the standard editor. Perhaps you were a little snarky. We all are at times. I think the comment was that, since it worked, it was not worth fixing. Frankly I am easy ether way on that. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

And don't break what is fixed

You do seem quite determined to make a bloody nuisance of yourself. You've just added an {{unreferenced}} tag to a list that already had one, with the edit comment "Still an unreferenced article". The reason that list is unreferenced is that you removed the reference section from it with this edit. As a general rule, if you don't know what you are doing, then don't do it. Somebody now needs to go through your recent edits and sort out your mistakes; that's a waste of time for an editor who could otherwise be actually contributing to the project. You've earned some more advice, not that you show any sign of accepting that which you have already received: be careful who you accuse of ownership, that's something that can really piss some people off; if your edit has been reverted, try to find out why by initiating a discussion - attempting to start a war will not make you any friends. Nor will forum-shopping with your petty grievances. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:05, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

You were right about the {{unreferenced}} tag thing, and I have corrected it. See how easy that was despite the other nonsense in your post. You seem to have the impression that since I've made one error on something, that everything I have done is wrong. I hope you can see the flaw in that theory. I've responded to everyones comments on the AN/I discussion and requested the discussion be closed. I would much rather work together than to be attacked and worked against. Wouldn't you agree that is a better way to do it? Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 13:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Tolly4bolly's talk page.
Message added 17:11, 11 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tolly4bolly 17:11, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution Noticeboard

Hello, I just wanted to let you know I have closed the case you filed at DRN. It was was closed on procedure. It seems you were having a problem with another editor's behavior. DRN does not address behavior only content. For issues with editor behavior visit ANI. If you have any questions leave a note on my talk page or the DRN talk page.

--Cameron11598 (Converse) 21:15, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Declined speedy

Hi. I have declined this request for speedy delete for two reasons: (i) it has too much page history; (ii) it is a user talk page. I realise why you want it deleted, so I suggest this three-step alternative:

1. deactivate the existing redirect on User talk:Technical 13, optionally adding some text in its place;
2. move User talk:Technical 13 to a subpage (using a name of your choice), and this will leave a redirect behind;
3. move User talk:Technical 13/2013 to User talk:Technical 13 over the top of the new redirect at User talk:Technical 13.

--Redrose64 (talk) 18:04, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Of course it's academic now since you've done a cut&paste move while I was posting the above. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:06, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, yes it is... I'm now going through and fixing any redlinks in it's wake.... Actually.. since I plan on moving it back in 2014... I'll do a redirect instead... Technical 13 (talk) 18:08, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Might I suggest a more conventional and automatic archiving scheme? I use one such on my talk page and have for years. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:17, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I really, really, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY dislike all of the automatic systems currently available... I like my organized by topic start date into tabs at the top of the page. It may be irrelevant if/when MW:Flow goes live. Technical 13 (talk) 18:22, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and for the record Rose, since the page "exists", I wouldn't have been able to complete step 3 of your suggestion (which was why I requested the speedy delete/move (you could have just moved it and none of the history would have been lost)). No biggie though. It's all taken care of. Technical 13 (talk) 18:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

A preliminary move of User talk:Technical 13 to, say, User talk:Technical 13/original would have moved the entire page and its history, and created User talk:Technical 13 as an entirely fresh page containing a redirect to User talk:Technical 13/original. This fresh redirect would have had a history of just one item, and moving User talk:Technical 13/2013 over the top of that would not have been controversial; but without the preliminary move, a move of User talk:Technical 13/2013 over User talk:Technical 13 would have zapped the previous history of User talk:Technical 13, which is not permitted, see WP:CSD#U1. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:49, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Makes no sense to me. Either way, it matters not at this point... On an entirely unrelated note, would you be willing to close my most recent discussion on WP:ANI. It is resolved. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 18:57, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I just tried it with another page and it doesn't work for non-admins it seems. Technical 13 (talk) 15:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

It does however make sense to those with a long-term knowledge of Wikipedia. Hundreds of such move operations are performed each day: can you state exactly what move operation you attempted that did not work? Was it an attempted WP:MOR? —Sladen (talk) 16:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I did exactly what Rose suggested above. I moved the current redirect of William Leveson (which was redirecting to William Leveson-Gower) to William Leveson/recycle. I then tried to move William Leveson (mercer) to William Leveson and the system refused saying there was already a page there and an administrator was needed to do it. Technical 13 (talk) 16:57, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

(I've asked for William Leveson/recycle to be unhidden while we try to debug what probably happened[6]). Here's what I think Redrose64 suggested, in relation to improving your talk page arrangement, while also preserving the accurate history:

• User talk:Technical 13→User talk:Technical 13/original; User talk:Technical 13/2013→User talk:Technical 13

here's what (I think) happened in relation to the Article space redirects (history of redirect not needed):

• William Leveson→William Leveson/recycle (@ 15:41); William Leveson (mercer)→William Leveson (failed @ ??:??). William Leveson (mercer)→William Leveson (performed by User:Ukexpat @ 16:48

These are two different use-cases: one aiming to preserve the history and the other not preserve the page history. I'd probably have to ask Ukexpat to weigh in about what they saw just before the move was finally executed. Each move will have recreated a new redirect in its place, and any edits to this redirect will have created a page history that would have prevented a WP:Move Over Redirect from occurring. People are quite willing to help, though error messages really help! Either way, please do not assume something is impossible, ask—Ask for a review of what is proposed, and which bits might require administrator assistance; the use here of Redrose's name in the summary here was misleading at best since they were talking about a solution for something else completely. —Sladen (talk) 09:28, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Notability

Okay, I started the discussion at WP:Notability as you suggested. —Anne Delong (talk) 23:11, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Resilience

		The Resilient Barnstar
		You have come through a lot. I wanted to recognise this fact early on in your time on Wikipedia. Never stop improving. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 11:33, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Admin backlog for Template talk:Expand section/sandbox?

Hi Technical 13. Not sure why you added {{adminbacklog}} at the Template talk:Expand section/sandbox page. Purging doesn't require admin attention and you can easily do it yourself. I've removed it for now, feel free to use the {{admin help}} template there if you do need an admin for something. Chamal ^T•C 14:54, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Murder of Jason Spencer

You removed notability tags from this article. Is the event really notable? As it was created by a grieving parent, I don't want to tell her that it might not be notable, but crime is relatively common and often receives significant coverage. The article also seems to fail WP:CRIME, as the victim would not independently be notable. Thanks, FrigidNinja 00:56, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that if the sources are available, and the person had something dedicated in their name (Jason Spencer now has a sports park), then that may qualify for notability. Wouldn't you agree? Not that it is important, but I didn't remove any notability template, I replaced {{Orphan}} and {{Ref improve}} with {{COI}} and {{original research}} and removed the {{Multiple issues}} wrapper so the editor could see the "fixes". I would however say that the article should likely be moved to overwrite the redirect Jason Spencer at very least. Technical 13 (talk) 01:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Oops, must have been mistaken with the tags. The move you suggest raises some interesting questions though. If this is the only event for which a person is notable, then it certainly should just be at Jason Spencer. However, what about what has been done with Amanda Todd? FrigidNinja 02:01, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Same thing in my opinion. Basically, unless there Is a valid reason to disambiguate the article, it should be just the persons name. I'm in bed for the night on a 320*240 screen. I'll look up the policies and such to link tomorrow. Technical 13 (talk) 02:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Above and beyond

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
Wow, This was a great answer. Thanks for your patience and thoroughness with an frustrated newcomer. Nice job! - J-Mo Talk to Me Email Me 01:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:Marriage

As you perhaps saw, the TFD for {{Marriage}} got closed as "no consensus". After examining the way this template works, I've proposed removing many of the parameters that many of the TFD participants found unnecessary, problematic, objectionable, etc. The proposal is in the "Removing parameters" section of Template talk:Marriage; would you please go there and offer your opinions? I apologise for the boilerplate style of writing; I'm doing my best to notify all participants in the TFD equally, so I'm copy/pasting the same thing to everyone's talk page regardless of how they voted. Nyttend (talk) 02:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Technical 13/2013/2. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 12:39, 16 April 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Your submission at Articles for creation

Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.

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Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! — Earwig [alt] ^talk 15:03, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

WikiCreole,etc

Okay, done. Don't expect a speedy deletion notice whenever you create an inappropriate article - they are normally only placed by non-admins who can't actually do the deletion themselves. Deb (talk) 17:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll complete that documentation and request it be moved when done or inject it into the current Wordtowiki help. Technical 13 (talk) 17:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Problem With User Page

I need to group my TOP section into a Box but I don't know how!... need help  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:18, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that is a mess. I don't have time to fix it right now, but I will get to it after class. Technical 13 (talk) 20:26, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I haven't forgotten. I got into a discussion with the professor about getting an extension on a paper that was due tonight at the end of class and locked my laptop up at school before walking home in he rain, I'll fix your Userbox section up pretty in the morning. Technical 13 (talk) 8:38 pm, Yesterday (UTC−4)

ok, no problem. anyway, i'll try to fix it so you don't have to work that much. Kind regards  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

It's a great job what you're doing, I loved this [[7]] but with U2 section in an orderly fashion. Hope this doesn't sound annoying to you. I appreciate what you are doing for me.

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		'Cause you deserve this  Miss Bono (zootalk) 17:29, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm actually still working on it. After playing around with your page, I decided that the {{Userboxtop}} template is deficient and I've been working on expanding it so that it will be more functional and do some extra fancy stuff for you. You may see these changes on the sandbox and testcases pages here: Template:Userboxtop/sandbox and Template:Userboxtop/testcases. Technical 13 (talk) 17:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Just saw your link to the diff that you liked... You want a full four column wide table? That is easy to do. Also, I noticed that you have a couple of "raw" userboxes in there. Would you like those moved to sub-pages so that you don't have all the messy code on your main page? Technical 13 (talk) 17:42, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Looking at what you have done I think i like this Template:Userboxtop/testcases... It's pretty cool. What is a raw userbox? Sorry for the question, I am not a native English speaker. Thanks for helping.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

My modifications to Template:Userboxtop/sandbox aren't quite done, but getting closer. When they are done, I'll request an admin move them to the main Template:Userboxtop and you should see the results immediately when that happens.

Raw userboxes are the ones that instead of looking like {{User PA}} they look like:

{{Userbox
|border= ...
|id= ...
...
|info= ...
...
}}

Technical 13 (talk) 15:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see. If so i would like to move them to a subpage. Thanks for your time ;)  Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		Thanks  Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• There... I finally got it all working... You like? Technical 13 (talk) 16:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

NICEEE!!!!! THANK YOU!!! A LOT  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

About This Div <div class="noprint">

Try this; go to : TooP "Print/export" Then Go To Download as PDF" And see be free to see the problem. When the table is too wide.. you can't print in PDF... and if you are going to do a book with 100 articles inside you can't render the book. Please try!! and any way.. what is the problem with that div?? you can still view the page without problems, and the pdf work good.. but without the table. The problem is the table not the div. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_5_in_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventura_Freeway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_60 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_10_in_Arizona

Try add in a book this articles.. then save in you personal computer and watch: "Print/export" -> "Create a book" add.. and generate as pdf. " WARNING: Article could not be rendered - ouputting plain text. Potential causes of the problem are: (a) a bug in the pdf-writer software (b) problematic Mediawiki markup (c) table is too wide

And this coment is very ugly thank you very much "ask for help instead of vandalizing Wikipedia" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sgccgs (talk • contribs) 23:53, 16 April 2013 (UTC) " — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sgccgs (talk • contribs) 23:47, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

I would be happy to look into that first thing in the morning. I had to lock my laptop up at school and walk home tonight so I have no aceess to a computer at the moment. Technical 13 (talk) 00:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm looking into it right now. I hope you are not in too much of a hurry as this may take a little while. Technical 13 (talk) 18:27, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Help_desk.
Message added 18:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Direct link to our discussion. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Abuse#Problems

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Abuse#Problems. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, thanks for the help with the IP 200.82.224.124 bot situation. And now I know that the help desk is a good place to go for... (wait for it, wait for it...) help! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Y No problem. If you like userboxes, I am building quite a collection at User:Technical_13/Userboxes. If you like helping those that ask for it with {{Help me}}, I would suggest adding {{User:Technical_13/Userboxes/Help me responder}} to your page. It let's you know how many people are asking for help. If # = 0, shows a picture of a sun shining on a green background. If 0 < # <= 5 then it is a green link on a green background with the # that goes to the cat so you can see who. If >5 then it is a red link on a red background with the # that goes to the cat so you can see who. Technical 13 (talk) 19:42, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Ryan Hodgskin

Not sure what you were attempting with this PROD - your rationale was extremely weak (plus what does the date it was created matter?) and you seem ignorant of WP:NFOOTBALL, which this article passes. GiantSnowman 08:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It fails WP:BLPPROD, but because it was created before that date BLPPROD doesn't apply. I'll look more deeply into WP:NFOOTBALL but from what I've seen everywhere else, truth (existance) ≠ notable, which this article seemed to imply the opposite. Like I said, I'll review it again and if I still think it merits deletion I'll AfD it. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated. :) Technical 13 (talk) 09:56, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

No, it *does* not fail BLPPROD as it is referenced! You also should not strike dead links, instead please try and replace them. GiantSnowman 10:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Referenced with a source that mentions his name but offers no information about him and a deadlink... WP:BLPPROD: "...which support any statements made about the person in the biography." (underlined key word) An article mentioning him in a game is not about him and offers no such information. I see you have requested assistance in finding reliable sources on the topic, and that pleases me (I'd much rather see it improved than deleted). I'm looking into WP:NFOOTBALL as we speak and will reply on what I find there. What specifically do you claim from that guideline does this player qualify for notability under? Thanks. Technical 13 (talk) 10:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

A match report confirming he has played professional football and a deadlink which I repaired in about 30 seconds? Trust me, not eligible for BLPPROD, especially when WP:BEFORE was patently not followed. He meets WP:NFOOTBALL as he has "appeared [...] in a fully professional league." GiantSnowman 10:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Which team is it that you claim is professional that Ryan Hodgskin is on that qualifies as it is on the list of fully professional leagues kept by WikiProject Football that WP:NFOOTBALL accepts as a "fully professional league"? (Jomo Cosmos F.C. is not on that list by the way and it is the only team other than the university team the article tells me about.) Technical 13 (talk) 11:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Um, he spent 10 years playing in the Premier Soccer League. WP:FPL is a list of league, not teams, so of COURSE the team does not appear - no team does! GiantSnowman 11:24, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

The Premier Soccer League isn't even mentioned in the article. The casual reader who happens upon this page via Special:Random for example knows nothing about the connection between the teams and the leagues. I've added the connection to this league and am interested in having no more discussion about it. I've also de-orphaned the page. Technical 13 (talk) 11:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I have reverted your bizarre infobox formatting, and I have re-orphaned the article. You cannot decide a player is a "notable" player for a club, that is pure WP:OR. GiantSnowman 12:28, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to you reverting the formatting, but why have you removed the information? I have put the information back and am looking for another way to deorphan the page. Technical 13 (talk) 12:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

We do not include leagues in the infobox; even if we did, it might be an idea to get the correct one listed... GiantSnowman 12:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Then put it in the body. I don't care where it is as long as it is mentioned so that the next person that comes along can quickly see the inherent notability, which I still question and am debating looking through some of the other deleted articles on the subject and seeing if there is fair rational for deletion. As far as correctness goes, I pulled the information that those team were in those leagues from the team pages linked there themselves, so you may want to fix those pages if it is incorrect. Technical 13 (talk) 12:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I have already put it in the body. Nobody has questioned notability for 7 years because it was (apparently) clear enough for anyone with even the smallest knowledge of football. You pulled the current leagues, not the leagues they were in when Hodgskin played for them. Finally, I have removed the two external links you added, neither is reliable, please be more careful in future. Transfermarkt is notorious for being factually inaccurate as the content is produced by anonymous users (similar to Wikipedia!); the other is a computer game fan site. GiantSnowman 12:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

That is great, I'm glad it is in the body now. I would wager to bet the reason nobody has questioned notability for 7 years is because the player is so not notable that barely anyone knew it was there and not because notability is clear. The leagues they were in when he played for them would be correct in my opinion, and if that was not what I got, then I am glad it has been corrected. I'm not savvy in the purpose or reliability of those sites, and on second thought I should have asked about them on the talk page. For that I apologize and I'm glad that you cleaned up after me. I am an American English (with just a hint of Canadien) knowledgeable individual and can not read other languages at all. Anyways, I think that if a way can be found to remove the orphan status from that article, I will be satisfied to just leave it alone. :) Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

A suicide of a non notable person is not a biography

I know you are trying to learn and to be helpful, but your mass nomination of all the Suicide of Foo articles that you can find to Foo is bewildering in the extreme. In a nutshell, Wikipedia only has articles about Foo if they are inherently notable. The people who killed themselves are not now and were not notable in Wikipedia terms, thus they cannot have a biographical article. The suicides are notable in Wikipedia terms, thus they have an article. Your seeking to move them is something you need to reconsider, and ideally to withdraw and request an admin to close as Withdrawn Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

They all have redirect pages from foo to suicide of foo, WP:PRECISION says if there is no conflict of names, and the name is available, it should be just foo. Why would these incidents be notable but the people that the incident is about not be? Perhaps a new section needs to be added to the general notability section that protects these "suicide of ..." and "murder of ..." articles as being notable because the incident was notable. I'm assuming that I would either have to propose that on WP:VPR or WP:N? Technical 13 (talk) 16:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

My strong advice to to step back, withdraw your nomination and leave the topic alone. If you feel unable to do that, ask for guidance from others. I am not going to explain chapter and verse to you over this. The redirects are there to ensure that people find the suicide article. Redirects have no significance at all. This is a borderline disruptive nomination for a move. Please, please create and edit articles, and leave things you are not yet experienced in alone. Gain experience by watching and learning. If you must propose moves, propose small ones, not great swathes where the matter has already been decided. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 17:05, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) ...What? The incidents are notable, so they get an article about the incident. That doesn't need its own section in N, it's just how it works. The point is that these are articles about the incident, not the person, so WP:PRECISION doesn't apply (well, technically, it does, just not in the way you think: it reinforces that they should be named "suicide of foo", since a person and the incident of their suicide are not the same subject). Look at WP:CRIME, for an example: "A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person." Or WP:1E: "The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person." Take Suicide of Amanda Todd, for example. She as a person would not be notable, except for the suicide, which was highly notable. So, we don't have an article on her, we have an article on the sucide, focusing on its causes, effects, and responses, which incorporates relevant biographical details on her. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Can I help you close the request as "withdrawn" then? --George Ho (talk) 17:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I have closed the request as "withdrawn", so I raised the general issue in Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Notability of deaths and dead people who become notable after death. --George Ho (talk) 18:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Chill

Greetings T13. Please could I politely suggest you chill. You are again stepping heavily upon areas of Wikipedia that you are not yet experienced in. It's possibly to tell this purely by the amount of noise that the actions are generating here on your talk page. For the moment, perhaps try to focus on simple editing and citing, and if something is highlighted to you, please Assume Good Faith and try not to argue as the default recourse. Could you withdraw the unusual nominations that remain, and then I would like to suggest a real Wikibreak, you already have template on your User:Technical 13 page, it's just a matter of stepping away from the computer! —Sladen (talk) 17:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

My friend T13, I hope I may call you that at least since we have had some excellent interactions after an inauspicious start, please do heed those of us who have also made errors of judgment and felt sure we were correct. There is a point when we each discovered our certainty got in the way of our learning. Even when we were right we often found we were in a position of weakness because we were so certain of our correctness and failed to carry folk with us in our discussions.

I have made many errors. I will continue to make others. What I try to do is to make them once only. Sometimes I fail. One thing I have discovered is that when I start to get enmeshed in the minutiae of Wikipedia I need instead to attend to articles, articles, articles, and to walk away from minutiae. By many standards I am a long serving editor here. I am accepted by many because I continue to learn. I know that I am not always right (rare, of course, as that may be). When I am wrong I do my best to understand. If I fail to understand I take a break from that area, but watch it and try to learn in it without contributing to it for a while. Si tacuisses philosphus mansisses is a decent motto to remember. I admit I have failed in that at times.

I don't think you need a break from the computer. I differ from Sladen in that regard. I think you need a break from what has, so far, been combat. I'd love to see a huge number of edits, perhaps the creation of a redlinked article that tweaks your curiosity but which you have no knowledge in. The task of researching an unknown area is wonderfully liberating, and the creation of a new article that stays online without question is a very pleasant achievement. It's even better when someone takes up the baton and carries on with what was your baby. It feels good. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 21:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It never hurts to have more friends, and I appreciate the ones that are honest with me and tell me how they see it instead of agreeing with me for the sake of agreement. I really do need to take somewhat of a break, as I am weeks behind in some of my classes. I have a few drafts in my user space to work on, and a few others floating around in my head, which is often a quite chaotic neutral place and less often chaotic good. The guidelines and policies on this wiki are strange things, and very often it is difficult to find the ones that you need, I wish they were more organized. At very least more easily search-able. I am a bureaucrat on a few other wikis and have close to 20K mediawiki based wiki edits. I understand the politics and whatnot, and I understand there is a wider range of opinions on Wikipedia then there are on the smaller more specialized wikis I administrate. To be honest I'm loving the wider range of diversity and find myself learning more about life in general, which is why I come back everyday to see what who wrote about this or that or whom... Technical 13 (talk) 22:08, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an exceptionally difficult place to learn to work effectively in. The very simplicity of editing allows one to think that the place itself is simple. The politics, procedures, undercurrents and so much else make it a treacherous quicksand. In many ways, if you can survive the environment here you can survive any work environment. Our experience outside Wikipedia, however many wikis one has under one's belt (I think I have six external to here that I own) has little relevance to working within it.

Get on top of your coursework again and ration yourself with your time here. Come here in bursts of creativity, and treat it as an exercise in writing neutral prose that has no POV and no OR in it and is well referenced with both on and offline WP:RS, making the fullest use of the various citation templates. Your username tells us that you are technical. Make this a technical exercise in writing concise and coherent encyclopaedia grade prose. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

LOL I picked that handle when I set up my first free email account in 1997 on Yahoo... It's carried through with me for many years now. Technical 13 (talk) 22:28, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

You do seem to live up to it, though. The problem is that Wikipedia takes no prisoners, and has a hunger for victims. We're back to the alleged wisdom of crowds, something I believe firmly to be a figment of an altruistic imagination. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

You know, a less than charitable person would consider that Special:Contributions/Technical_13 shows that you are canvassing. I have noted that you have invited people who see both sides of the discussion, but you are sailing very close to the wind of acceptable behaviour here. No matter how many times people advise you to back off and to create and edit articles you seem unwilling to leave policy alone, especially when you are plain wrong. It is coming very close to pointed behaviour and a whole slew of alphabet soup. You will run into someone who will block you again, I have no doubt of that.

Please accept that you will learn best by looking and listening, not by speaking and typing. And I implore you again, please concentrate on making and creating articles. Leave policies alone, just make an encyclopaedia. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

My last statement on the subject discussion itself says I've no interest in discussing it more, and the people that I sent messages to all have made contributions to similar discussions, some supporting and opposing. I hardly see that as canvasing. Anyways, I'm not discussing it anymore right now. Technical 13 (talk) 17:29, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

NICE!!!

Thank YOU!!!!  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

For what? Technical 13 (talk) 21:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

For helping me with my user page  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I dind't mean my USER PAGE (the one you help me with) I mean my Talk page.. take a look.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I cleaned up both your user and talk pages some... I see you have put some of the bad code back, and I'd be happy to clean it up for you. For example, there is no reason to nest and stack <big><big><big><big>...</big></big></big></big> tags like that. It is poor form, instead include the text in one <span>...</span> with a |class=font-size: 48pt; Just let me know if you want me to fix it up. I see you got rid of your floating images, I recommend if you want them back, that you only do one at a time (you can even transclude it with a template from your page that alternates (picks a random one) each time). Let me know what you want to do and I'll see what I can do with it. Technical 13 (talk) 17:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

At the risk of getting off topic… <big><big><big><big>...</big></big></big></big> is generally the preferred form, because it scales consistently using relative sizes. Hard-coded font-sizes, such as |class=font-size: 48pt; do not scale. Now, about those article-space edits… —Sladen (talk) 17:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

<span style="font-size: 500%"> is much preferred if you want it to scale. CSS is magical. Not going to see many article space edits from me likely for the next few months. I'm on college wikibreak which means I can poke in and discuss a couple things, but don't have the time to sit and research and improve articles on any massive scale other than possible running citebot and wikEd to fix some formatting from time to time. Once my my "divorce" for lack of a simple more accurate term is completed, I'll have some time to devote to articles. In the mean time, Sladen, I would appreciate you dropping the stick and quit wikihounding me about it. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 17:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

can you fix all of it?? I want my floating images back :'( Someone messed up my talk page  Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:09, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I can and will, though likely not today as I am on deadlines to get some papers done for school. Technical 13 (talk) 18:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry for the time. do it whenever you can. Thanks A LOT :P  Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Pie.jpeg

 Miss Bono (zootalk) has given you a fresh pie! Pies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a piping hot pie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Bon appetit!

Spread the tastiness of pies by adding {{subst:GivePie}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

• Done. I still think it would look better with one random image instead of three stacked. I took the liberty of putting the images behind everything else so they don't prevent people from using the links on the side of the page. Technical 13 (talk) 18:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

It's nice, but feel free to do it as you want. I won't be bother for that. I let you my page for you to edit it...  Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I have created my first article... Take a look and tell me what you think about it. Thanks!!!  Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Comment

Hi, just to let you know I've left a comment on an issue that you are involved in here -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:55, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

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Hello

Hi, I'm Lee Tru. i also am in nerdfighter's CUVA classes and was wondering if we could work together. Thanks! -- Lee Tru. 15:51, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello Lee, thanks for asking! I'm not particularly interested in working together on this, as I feel that we will both gain more by doing our own independent research. However, if there is something that you are struggling with, and NerdFighter's method of explaining it isn't helping, feel free to ask him if it would be okay to get another interpretation of the concept. If he says sure, I would be happy to offer my interpretation and a suggestion of where the answer might be found or offer another way to look at the question. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 17:19, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not mean that. I meant that we could perhaps fight vandalism together. sorry for the misunderstanding!-- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 13:50, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

That is fine, no worries. I'm not sure what you have envisioned for working together, would you like to expand on that? Technical 13 (talk) 14:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

The pump

Technical, I saw your very honest and candid comments at the Village Pump discussion about the "suicide of Foo" articles and wanted to be sure to give you a bit of editor support for your courage. FYI, and FWIW, I found this book to be a very useful resource. I talked to the author on the phone one time when I was looking for an expert speaker on the topic and found him quite straightforward and genuine, if busy ;-). Montanabw^(talk) 19:36, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate that. :) Part of what "grinds my gears" so much about this is I bet that the opposers of this can't name one thing that Mark Zuckerberg is notable for, other than things that are Facebook related or were possible due to his success with... That Bill Gates is notable for, other than...Microsoft related... That Jimbo Whales ... Wikipedia... and the list goes on... However, I've basically been told if I contribute any further to that discussion or others like it for a while that I'll be blocked again for being disruptive. I honestly do not expect the policies to change, but what I am hoping for is that the discussion will be closed as "no consensus" which in itself will build some ground work for another attempt to find consensus at a later time when I will not be shunned from contributing to the discussion. Technical 13 (talk) 20:08, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I followed the stuff on your talk page, T13, and what happened was not right. I thought blocking is not punitive. p.s. do you like my new sig. -- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 13:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I see a fair amount of bullying going on at that topic, IMHO. It's a double standard and it's a wiki-side problemMontanabw^(talk) 22:09, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep, and unfortunately it is what it is. I'm expecting a best case of no consensus on that discussion. Which would be an improvement of previously shot down proposals. Maybe some day we will have an administrator or crat that sees the inconsistencies and makes an "official" site wide proposal similar to the new right that was proposed and there can be a real consensus drawn. Until then... I don't expect there is much than can be done. Lee, your new signature is fine by my standards. Technical 13 (talk) 23:30, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I too support your position and I encourage you to start an RFC on the problem. Like you, I have also been threatened with blocks for disputing the status quo in past discussions so I can truly understand your frustration. We are clearly dealing with a systemic bias. Viriditas (talk) 02:39, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

This will be the first officially started RfC and I want to make sure that I do it right. Based on my readings of WP:RfC, I should post:

RfC section on Talk:Suicide of Kelly Yeomans in a new section below current discussion

== Should biographical articles be titled by the name of the person or the event for which the person is notable for? ==
{{Rfc|bio|soc}}

Should biographical articles be titled by the name of the person or the event for which the person is notable for? ~~~~

=== Survey ===
==== Support ====
* Support titling the articles by the name of the notable person and not the event. ~~~~

==== Oppose ====

=== Threaded discussion ===

AND publicize the RfC by posting a notice at WP:Village pump (policy)#Notability of deaths and dead people who become notable after death, WP:POVN, WP:CRIMEPROJ, WP:HR, WP:DEATH, WP:DISCR, WP:LGBT, WP:SOCIOLOGY, WP:CBTF, and WP:Ψ

== RfC: Should biographical articles be titled by the name of the person or the event for which the person is notable for? ==
I invite everyone interested in this discussion to voice their opinions at the RfC I've created for this topic as I feel their is a deadlock of no consensus in the discussions. Thank you. ~~~~

Is this correct? Technical 13 (talk) 13:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes. That is the correct way to post an RFC. I am not very sure if advertising the RFC really is required, but yes. that is certainly the way to do it. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I was actually just thinking of posting a comment about this on your page. My honest opinion is that it would be extremely unwise for you to post yet another RfC on this topic. There is no "official" way or place to post an RfC; the ones that have taken place on Talk:Suicide of Kelly Yeomans are just as official as ones on a Village Pump. And by the way, in my estimation (though after discussing it on Montanabw's talk page I would no close the RfC myself), the current RfC is not mired in no consensus. There is a solid (though of course not unanimous) consensus against the change. Bringing the discussion to another venue for a third round smacks of forum-shopping. There is a point in any discussion where you have to accept that the consensus is against you and move on. (And that the consensus is not driven by prejudice and bullying, because in this case, it's not.) I definitely think we're at that point. If you want to post another RfC on the Village Pump, well, I'm not going to stop you, particularly if it's framed as a general question, as opposed to the specific subset of articles you mention in the RfC. But I think it's a bad idea; the community opinion on the general case is clear enough from the current RfCs. I would also submit to you--without this being in any way a threat, because I have no intention of taking any action against you or even of asking others about it--that this kind of reckless pursuit of implementing your own ideas and opinions while overriding the concerns of others is precisely the type of behavior for which you were blocked, and the type of behavior people wanted you to avoid when unblocked. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 13:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Copied verbatim from User talk:Writ Keeper/Archives/8#Talkback_from_Technical_13 Technical 13 (talk) 14:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Due to this comment, I feel it is probably not in my best interest for me to start the above RfC. So far there has been discussion on the topic on Talk:Suicide of Kelly Yeomans in multiple sections and WP:Village pump (policy)#Notability of deaths and dead people who become notable after death, although neither one is technically an RfC. I feel that the other WikiProjects should at very least be notified of the the discussions and I hope that someone "less new" and "less probational" notify those groups and possibly submit the RfC anyways because "Requests for comment (RfC) is an informal process for requesting outside input concerning disputes, policies, guidelines, article content, or user conduct. RfC is one of several processes available within Wikipedia's dispute resolution system." I think that some dispute resolution is needed and I would like to see some more neutral parties involved. Technical 13 (talk) 14:25, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The question is: why are the twenty-two people who've commented in the current discussion not neutral? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Not saying that the 22 commentors out of 130,187 active users aren't neutral, I'm saying I would like to see more neutral parties involved. Granted, I'm not expecting to see as large of a number as the 250-300 people that commented on WT:Protected Page Editor, but I wouldn't be offended if that many showed up. Technical 13 (talk) 14:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure the "drahmahz" of an RfC is the way to go, perhaps a question if WP:BPO1E needs to be modified, as that's what everyone is raising when they oppose Technical's viewpoint. My own view is that with these discussions so far, it seems to be the same people, everywhere. It would be nice to figure out how to get some new eyes on the situation. I notified one wikiproject, admitting that I was not neutral, and in doing so was (fairly gently) slapped for "canvassing," so this whole issue is just driving me nuts. Montanabw^(talk) 15:54, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Once the current discussions end, I would not start another one about this issue, for at least six months. It takes times for minds to change. Let the arguments sit and do their work. Then maybe give it another go at the end of the year, especially if you detect signs of consensus changing. --B2C 18:16, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I've had an interesting discussion at my talk page on the overall topic. My thinking is that there are similar issues on the "Murder of" articles to the "Suicide of" articles and that the whole thing is clunky and needs revamping, possibly as a clarification of BIO1E. But I agree that the move requests should be allowed to wind down, then maybe gather more data on the inconsistency of naming protocols and such, (Note comments at my talk on AMBER Alert and Amber Hagerman) then take it to BIO1E for discussion of a policy change - then go back to the individual articles. Montanabw^(talk) 21:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

What exactly is your problem with King Kelly (film)?

Apparently you weren't satisfied with my answer to why it shouldn't be speedied, since you just tagbombed it with "fansite", "more footnotes", "recentism", "ref improve", and "unreliable sources". Care to explain why? I'm removing them unless you can actually show a problem with the article. The article is written factually and neutrally, so "fansite" is not applicable. Which specific statements do you have a problem with? Things that need citing are cited inline, so "more footnotes" and "ref improve" aren't applicable. If you see something which you think needs an inline cite, feel free to add "cite needed". "Recentism" makes no sense: it's a film from November 2012, so all the reviews are from November 2012. And as for "unreliable sources", I fail to see how the New York Times, Film Journal International, and Slant Magazine are unreliable. Please reply at Talk:King Kelly (film). -- Atlantima ~✿~ (talk) 02:14, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

• I would be happy to explain my viewpoints on why I think those tags applied (I see you removed them without giving a sleeping man time to respond, and have added some more information) at the time of my tagging.
  • Fansite
    • The lede is good and fairly neutral, the reception section is where the improvement is needed on this article.
  • More footnotes
    • There are a few in-line citations, but more could be better, (I can tag statements with {{Cn}} if you would like me to.)
  • Recentism
    • The WP:ORIGINAL data on Rotten Tomatoes is recent as it was when you looked it up and there is no way to accurately maintain those stats.
  • Ref improve
    • Once the unreliable sources listed below are filtered out, you have two sources. This could use some improvement.
  • Unreliable sources
    • The following sources are considered unreliable.
      • King Kelly info page at SeeThink Films' website
        • WP:SELFSOURCE sites not considered reliable.
      • Official film website
        • WP:SELFSOURCE sites not considered reliable.
      • King Kelly at the Internet Movie Database
        • WP:USERGENERATED sites not considered reliable.
      • Rotten Tomatoes
        • WP:USERGENERATED sites that generates WP:ORIGINAL are not considered reliable.
      • King Kelly: Film Review
        • Blog's are not reliable
    • The following sources are considered reliable.
      • A Rowdy Tale, Told by Cellphone Cameras: ‘King Kelly,’ a Satire of Lust for Internet Fame
      • Film Review: King Kelly
• Now you know my reasoning for adding all of those tags and perhaps you can clean the article up some. Thanks for asking. I'm going to re-revert you and add this list to the talk page of the article. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 11:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Re. help

it didn't work, also, when I put on the "this person signed Jimbo's book" one it covered my autoconfermed one.-- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 14:10, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

A Spaceship for you!

	the re-entry award
	for "taking the heat" about your contribs. and comments. Thus Spake Lee Tru. 14:16, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

A Badge For You

.::Thanks For All Your Great Answers::.

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:39, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

How does one comment on AfC's?

Thanks for your note earlier on the AfC page. How does an expert vote or express an opinion about an article being considered for creation? There seems to be no box for comments. Thanks,--Smokefoot (talk) 17:15, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Read → WP:WikiProject Articles for creation#How to get involved and then become an AfC project member and reviewer. I hope that helps. :) Technical 13 (talk) 17:35, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

oops!! I mess something up

i am quite a mess. I ruined my User page again trying to add the header. I am sure you want to kill me... :'( Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:30, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

There, was that what you were looking for? Technical 13 (talk) 20:12, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

My userboxes are a mess. Any time I edit something they disrupt themselves  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:16, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually... This wasn't your fault. It was actually the result of another user's poorly coded userbox that was breaking your layout. I've gone and fixed that userbox and you should be all set there. I also added a few comments that should be useful for you to be able to add more userboxes and make it look even. Technical 13 (talk) 20:56, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

That's pretty good but I can't see the comments you added. Please, let me know where they are.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 11:49, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The comments are visible only when you edit the page. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 11:56, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

When you edit the page, you will see: <!-- When adding boxes, try to even disperse them throughout all of the columns to maintain even column length and uniformity --> at the top of the userbox section. I've also marked the tops of all three columns with <!-- COLUMN ONE -->, <!-- COLUMN TWO -->, and <!-- COLUMN THREE --> respectively to make it easy to identify where you want to add your boxes to make it look even. :D Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 12:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I already saw that. Thanks, I'll do my best!!! Same to you.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:13, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

My Talk Page

I made a mistake and create a page. i think the problem is fixed  Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

WikiLove Badges

Hey Technical,

So I like your design--it's clean and looks good, but I have frankly not figured out if it's possible to integrate with the WikiLove delivery mechanism.

Please take a look at how the code works here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ocaasi/WikiLoveinstallscript.js

It's quite limited in what fields it accepts and it structures the personalized message outside of the template that is left, and signs it using a different mechanism. If I can't figure out how to work your code into the WikiLove mechanism, which we think accounts for a large number of the given badges, then we might have to return to the old way.

Another consideration, conceptually, is that a badge is a kind of single unit which exists apart from the message and signature. Like a boyscout merit badge, the badge itself is an independent icon, and the message and delivery of that badge is related but not part of the badge. (This is unlike barnstars where the message is integrated into the award by design). So I could also see a conceptual argument for keeping the old way, but we won't have to cross that bridge unless we can figure out the technical side.

Cheers Ocaasi ^{t | c} 15:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Putting the signatures in is obvious, simply change text: '$1 {{Wikipedia:Teahouse/Badge/Maitre d%27|size=}} \n~~'+'~~\n<br style="clear: both"/>', // custom text to text: '$1 {{Wikipedia:Teahouse/Badge/Maitre d%27|size=|signed=~~' + '~~}} \n<br style="clear: both"/>', // custom text

The difference here should work for all of them. Also, the script could likely be shortened if the specific template name was stored in a variable and then you would only need one call. (I would think anyways). What variable is the custom text stored in? Technical 13 (talk) 15:59, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I've played with what I can a little and... I think the $1 is the message... I'll copy your script and make a beta script that "should" work. Give me a couple minutes. Technical 13 (talk) 16:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'm definitely interested in seeing how it looks with the message left-aligned. I also notice a bit of greedy white space at the bottom of the badge. Any way we could tighten that up a bit? Looking forward to checking it out. Thanks again for pitching in with the coding and design aspects! Ocaasi ^{t | c} 19:29, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Chopped 2/3 of the whitespace off the bottom and moved text left. I'm not completely happy with it over there though. Technical 13 (talk) 21:36, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. This is looking better but I share your concerns. Options: Left align the message but right-align or center-align the signature. Center align the message and signature. Also, we might cut 2/3 of the white space above the message (but below the line) as well. Care to play around with it and see what you think looks better? Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 22:04, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll play with it a little more when I have a moment. Finishing up supper and getting ready to head to bed early tonight. Probably get to it tomorrow morning. Technical 13 (talk) 22:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey, the badge count idea is neat. My visual instinct is that the numbers are too big and overshadow the actual small badges. I know you have some vision concerns, but they read as a bit blocky to me and I think smaller and a smoother font would be more aesthetically pleasing. As for other major changes like that, it'd be great if you could propose and discuss them; we have a couple designers working on Teahouse and certain elements are actually being tested to get metrics right now, so it might be wise to coordinate such changes with our research approach to make sure we're not changing course too much mid-test. Let's plan to meet and discuss in the Teahouse host lounge: Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge. Best, Jake Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:04, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

I wil laugh next time ;)... thanx for the advice..  Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:56, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Template talk:Bullying

I've asked around, but none of them have responded yet. I don't want to canvass anyone, so can you ask members of the WikiProject who are familiar with the subject to help out? Also, I am so busy trying to get some articles to FA/GA status and if you check my User:Sjones23/Barnstars, you'll see that I have been acknowledged for improving Wikipedia to the highest degree. If you check my user page, you'll also note that I have done 11 good articles and at least 10 featured articles (five of which I have successfully nominated). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:45, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Ask whom what? I'm confused and feel like I'm missing something here. Technical 13 (talk) 17:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I mean to ask other people involved with WikiProject Psychology to get involved and provide their opinions about the recent ongoing activity at Template talk:Bullying#This reversion. Sorry if I have caused any confusion. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:00, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Share the cookies

	Here's a plate full of cookies to share!
	Hi Technical 13/2013/2, here are some delicious cookies to help brighten your day! However, there are too many cookies here for one person to eat all at once, so please share these cookies with at least two other editors by copying {{subst:Sharethecookies}} to their talk pages. Enjoy! AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 18:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

• Apparently you've never had the honor of seeing my ability to eat cookies or any other baked goodies. Once in 7th grade, I brought a dozen donuts to school to share with a group I was in and ended up eating the whole dozen myself... lol Technical 13 (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Sanicola article

Hey,

Sorry about the trouble in the AfD section.. But PLEASE if you can advise me on what to do.. Should I source it better? I sourced it based on what the original admins told me to do, and eventually they said the SOURCING was fine, then just questioned the notability. That was over a year ago. NOW the albums and acts Ive contributed to are much bigger worldwide. So I hoped notability woudnt be a problem. One Direction? Cher Loyd? These are BIG BIG acts. I'll do whatever I have to do, but please dont gang up on the dude that approved me. Id rather the article get deleted then get him in trouble over something ridiculous like that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.117.156 (talk) 19:38, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I would be happy to. Step #1) Create an account. Step #2) Request the article be WP:USERFIED. Step #3) ... Get @1 and #2 done then we'll talk about 3 on. Technical 13 (talk) 21:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

okay.. Can I respectfully ask a question? Right now Ive been approved, and have a page (however tainted it may be). If I move it to a user page, I'm basically taking it off Wiki, right? Doesnt that mean Im voluntarily giving up the page approval I was so happy to get? And what would I do to this page while its in "incubation?" Arent there things I can do to it NOW to make it acceptable? I recently added another reliable source news article... I'm sure theres a way for me to structure it so its acceptable. Is this evaluation wrong? Sorry Im new to this, just trying to get a sense of whats going on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.117.156 (talk) 21:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying and how frustrating it probably is. David has suggested it get kicked back to AfC, which is the best option IMHO. Second best is to move it to your userspace (you would have to make an account). The way to think of it is like this, you've had you page poorly approved, and have a page that will likely be deleted if it isn't moved somewhere which will leave a horrible red box if someone goes to look for the page similar to Caroline Strong which is a userspace draft of mine right now from a similar thing that happened a while ago. Moving out of article space is not taking off the wiki. You are really saving the page that was wrongly approved, and should be happy to keep it instead of having it deleted. The salting of the title the article is at now, protects it from someone else putting an article up while you work on your article. You could do stuff to it now, however, I don't think you could do enough to it in the few days left that the AfD has to run its course. Basically, the salting of the name gives you plenty of time to fix up your article. The way it is wording in the suggestion is, as soon as your article meets WP:NOTABILITY → WP:MUSIC → WP:COMPOSER, that any WP:AfC reviewer that approves the article can request any administrator to take a look and remove the salting and move your article in. It does not mean that you have to wait for the salting to expire to get your article in there. Technical 13 (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

So I get to "keep" the page in a capacity that anyone in the world could have it? Like a myspace page? Forgive me, but your saying it was "wrongly" approved...like its %100 fact? How is that, if an administrator has already denied a request for deletion on the the grounds that "notability was established". Thats TWO people, a reviewer and an administrator that say, yes, Im notable enough. You're saying I could "do stuff" to it now, but likely not enough.. do WHAT? What could I do? Again, no advice here, just "get it out of there or you'll turn into a horrific red box." Is there anyway to get you to help me from the perspective of trying to NOT move it. Trying to KEEP the approval? Reconsidering the notability? Consider for a second that maybe from someone's point of view (obviously not your own) I'm notable enough. Just as there MANY MANY articles, i MYSELF do not consider notable, but to someone in THAT field, it is. Please, just try to consider it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.117.156 (talk) 23:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

The page will continue to be on Wikipedia if it is moved to a "work in progress" location. You have to remember that Wikipedia is an WP:ENCYCLOPEDIA and WP:NOTMYSPACE. On second thought, "wrongly" may have not been the most accurate word, "premature" is much more accurate. The administrator denied the WP:CSD and suggested the WP:AfD on the grounds that even though enough WP:NOTABILITY is established for the WP:BLP to survive the speedy deletion, it might not be notable enough to survive a discussion or may be moved to a more appropriate workspace to improve the article enough for it to go back into article space at some point. Like I said, it has nothing to do with notability as the world sees you, it has to do with are their enough independent reliable sources that have written about you to prove that notability. I highly doubt that "something" will not be done to the article be it deletion or a move back into a draft space, as the only possibility at this point of those things not happening would be for me to withdraw my original nomination. Having been working on User:Technical 13/Drafts/Caroline Strong for the last month with Caroline Strong, I can attest to how difficult it is to get enough independent reliable sources to prove notability without it looking like a fansite or an advertisement. I'm more than happy to help you, and want to know if it would really be that upsetting to have your article shot back to a draft location for a month or two while you add as many reliable sources as possible?

Honestly, YES it would be that upsetting. You're saying the ONLY possibility of the article not being deleted or moved is if you withdraw your nomination? Isn't there a possibility that for a second time an administrator will disagree with you? The ENTIRE article (minus the discog) is FOUR SENTENCES. I have SIX references, three of which are straight up NEWS (of which one of the most popular NEW YORK NEWSPAPERS acknowledges my notoriety and credits) another from ASIA which calls me an "18 year old music genius." (Which I dont even QUOTE in the article to remain unbiased!!) I also reference Allmusic.com which WIKI SPECIFICALLY SUGGESTS I reference in their guidelines. Discog.com is questionable? So beyond citations for EVERY credit on the discog (which I will GLADLY do) how much MORE referencing do you want me to do in this four sentence article? My notoriety (real world or otherwise) is based on the work Ive done, which I can gladly prove.173.52.117.156 (talk) 03:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, me withdrawing the nomination is at this point the ONLY way that it will not be deleted or moved. For the record, the administrator did not disagree with me. Their edit summary was (with some added formating to emphasize stuffs): "CSD Declined - notability has been asserted, but better references needed. Not overly promotional. Suggest AFD/Improve" I think if you follow the links and pay attention to the underlined/bold stuff, you'll see he didn't disagree that it needs to be fixed/deleted and simply stated it doesn't meet the extremely strict qualifications for speedy deletion. I see a lot has been done to the article since I have nominated it, however, it is still lacking content. Surely, in the 10 years since 2003 there has been more written about you than can be said in 4 or 5 sentences, hasn't there? I'm sitting outside waiting for my bus to school right now, but once I get there, I'll add an infobox for you to fill in as best you reasonably can and I'll do some more copy-editing for you. I see David has also been helping you and I think the three of us should be able to quickly get this article up to standards and get it back in to the article mainspace fairly quickly. I just don't expect that there will be enough before the close of the AfD to prevent it from at least being moved to a "Work in Progress" area. However, six days is a bit of time, so I encourage you to KEEP ADDING CONTENT to your article. I'll keep tabs on it, and work with you of course. If it meets the standard before the last day of the AfC, I'll note that significant improvements have been made and withdraw the nomination. Technical 13 (talk) 10:57, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure lets do it, although please note, I really dont want (nor think its appropriate) to have a long winded story-of-my life article. I just want a short article about a notable composer focusing on what he's done. Short and to the point. Can we please do that?173.52.117.156 (talk) 15:42, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey man, tried to do everything I possibly could to get it where you wanted it. Just wanted to throw a reminder out there that it's still up on AfD.. I'm just paranoid that an administrator will only see the early votes before all the improvements, and quickly delete without reading the whole thing. Anything you could do to avoid that would be appreciated. 173.52.117.156 (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I've re-listed the article to give you a little more time. I'm not sure who put the "clarification needed" templates up, but I suggest figuring it out and getting in touch with them to get whatever they wanted fixed (if the mouse-over description isn't enough). You said you have a picture? I'm sorry if I missed it before, it's finals this week and next for me and I'm super busy. Have you gotten the picture uploaded? If not, you should use the WP:File Upload Wizard to do so. Then I can help you get it on the page. Technical 13 (talk) 21:50, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I put the picture here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eric_Sanicola_.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Filterayok (talk • contribs) 23:36, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

A Barnstar For You

		The Original Barnstar
		For keeping me calm when I though I couldn't go on for all those personal attacks Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:19, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

You are very welcome. I've also added a note to your WP:RPP request saying that if semi-protection seems to be too much at this time, PC1 may do the trick. That would allow everyone to still edit your page (there may be an IP that has a legitimate reason to post something on your talk page, but it would prevent vandalism and personal attacks from going live so that only a few people that are reviewers or above could see the edits where it is likely they would get reverted. Other auto-confirmed users could also see the edits, but only if they have modified special settings in their preferences. It is a stepping stone to semi-protection (and usually preferred on user talk pages because it will still allow legitimate posts to be made). Technical 13 (talk) 15:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

THANKS!!!! :D  Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:38, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

your user page.....

...concerning your language capabilities.....I do not know if this is a joke which only works in Canadien, but your French ability should read as "très peu de francais", or, as it is "le" francais, at least "très, très petit francais". Cheers. Lectonar (talk) 18:03, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

LOL Thanks, corrected to "très, très petit Français (Canadien)" :) Technical 13 (talk) 18:08, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: FC Linz

Hello Technical 13. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of FC Linz, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Really? A team that won their national league is non-notable? That's played in the UEFA cup? . Thank you. GedUK  21:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

There are zero links or references to back up that claim. The article falls under WP:NOR if nothing else... I respect your declination of the speedy, and will properly post it in an AfD per protocol. Technical 13 (talk) 21:14, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't need a citation for CSD/A7, just a reasonable claim. The level is lower at CSD :) Didn't mean my decline to sound quite as sarcastic as it may have done! GedUK  21:17, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem, I did not take offense. I'll still be posting an AfD for it within the next twelve hours (I'm on a weak Internet connection and find it annoying when Twinkle only does half the job because of it). Technical 13 (talk) 21:19, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

Hi, Technical. It has been my practice for many years to align the values in Infoboxes to make them easier to read at a glance, and to remove unnecessary spaces beneath and within headings to keep those things tighter and more organized-looking. Nightscream (talk) 20:29, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate your attention to detail, as I have a similar but opposite opinion of those things. I've found that the parameters and respective arguments often do not fit on one screen width of my 640×480 laptop screen causing a horizontal scrollbar and increasing the inconvenience and work to have to edit such things. I've found the best balance is to place " = " with 1 space on both sides of the = as a separator which does an adequate job in my opinion. I also have less than perfect vision which is why I prefer to a 1 space to both sides of the text to separate it from the section heading formatting otherwise it all blends together and is harder to read. I make sure there is an extra linefeed above and below the section headings so they are super easy and quick to find. I also go through and make sure that all named references have their reference names wrapped in quotes as is demonstrated on WP:Citations#Repeated citations because per Help:Footnotes#Multiple references to the same footnote, although "quotes are optional if the only characters used are letters A–Z, a–z, digits 0–9 and the symbols !$%&()*,-.:;<@[]^_`{|}~" the use of any other character requires them. This being the case, I've found it is most efficient to just make sure that all ref names are wrapped in quotes. I also, go through and apply the American style for inclusion of periods and commas inside of quotation marks — see Quotation mark#Spacing. I also, while I am at it, replace instances of <references /> with {{Reflist}} as it seems to be more efficient and clean looking. So, if you can understand my rationale for those changes and not revert them for the sake of reverting them, I would appreciate that. If there is one particular rationale that I've mentioned that you don't agree with, just change that one thing and not revert everything I have done. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 21:11, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Please note that the Wikipedia Manual of Style trumps Wikipedia articles. On the other matters: change for the sake of change can really piss off other editors. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:52, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

With all due respect Rose, where were you this morning when I spent a couple hours looking for that MOS:LQ guideline? As far as your other statement, those edits were the first round of edits in association with Template talk:Bullying and Template:Bullying/sandbox where I'm trying to clean up the articles on those templates so that their connections to bullying is more clear. That first round was intended to make it easier for me to read the pages and make appropriate edits. That all being said, I'll modify my ReGex in AWB to take MOS:LQ into consideration. Thanks for pointing me to it. Technical 13 (talk) 22:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

MOS:COMMA

Redrose64 HELP! I'm now very confused by policy. MOS:LQ says punctuation always goes inside if it was part of the quote and MOS:COMMA says commas always go outside and use the UK-based logical punctuation system. So, two conflicting sets of directions on the same page... I hope you can see my confusion. I wouldn't mind hearing from Tryptofish on this as well. Thanks! Technical 13 (talk) 13:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

They're not in conflict. MOS:COMMA doesn't actually say that commas always need to go outside the quotation marks: it says to use logical quotation, which says exactly what LQ does: the punctuation goes inside the quote if it was part of the original quote and outside if it wasn't. Where does it say that they always go outside? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 13:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I quote directly from MOS:COMMA:

• On Wikipedia, place quotation marks in accordance with the UK-based logical punctuation system:

Incorrect:	She said, "punctuation styles on Wikipedia change too often," and made other complaints.
Correct:	She said, "punctuation styles on Wikipedia change too often", and made other complaints.

That shows me that commas never go inside as the example placing one as such is incorrect. There is no comment that says otherwise. The colon implies that the UK-based logical punctuation system is defined as the following example. Technical 13 (talk) 13:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Proof by example is a logical fallacy, T13. ;) It isn't giving a comprehensive set of examples, just one of the most common case, where the comma is not part of the original quote and so goes outside the quotation marks. If you follow the link for logical quotation, you'll read that it's the same thing proposed by MOS:LQ. The two guidelines aren't in conflict. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Would it be controversial for me to modify that section to read (should I ask on WT:MOS or be WP:BOLD?):

• On Wikipedia, place quotation marks in accordance with the UK-based logical punctuation system:

Incorrect:	She said, "punctuation styles on Wikipedia change too often," and made other complaints.
Correct:	She said, "punctuation styles on Wikipedia change too often", and made other complaints.
Incorrect:	He wrote, "Wikipedians are a strange breed", and then finished his sentence with, "and I am one of them."
Correct:	He wrote, "Wikipedians are a strange breed," and then finished his sentence with, "and I am one of them."

You can if you want. That's an awkward example, though I'll admit that I can't readily think of a better one; in practice, commas will nearly always go outside the quotation marks, since I'd imagine it's extremely rare for a quote to end in a comma. It's a rare enough case that I think it's probably better without another example; after all, logical punctuation is wikilinked. Adding it would not be incorrect, though. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

To my mind the second comma shouldn't be there as a quotation of a sentence fragment. Maybe a better example? --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:05, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I have no objection to a better example if you have one as long as there is an example for each case. Perhaps:

…	…
Incorrect:	"Wikipedians are a strange breed", he said before declaring, "and I am one of them."
Correct:	"Wikipedians are a strange breed," he said before declaring, "and I am one of them."

The reason that the comma needs to be before the "and…" is because and is used as a coordinating conjunction in this case. Technical 13 (talk) 15:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah - that one is less clumsy! --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The example is correct by all means; it should be kept, as the MOS page needs more clarification on the topic anyway. — |J~Pæst|

AWB

I've had to revert some of your edits that were made using AWB. Please make sure that you are familiar with WP:MOS before making such edits, and please look carefully at the page before saving your edits. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:03, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Please hold off until you've read above. I am somewhat familiar with WP:MOS and most of my changes are in accordance with those policies as I've stated in the above section and the rest of them are AWB general fixes. I always look over all of the pages before I save them, although when you are looking at that many pages in that short of a time it is not unlikely that you might miss a little thing or two. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 21:14, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm pleased to see that you have been directed to MOS:LQ. You may also want to become aware that, although it does no harm to how a page is displayed, there is no reason for you to add spaces alongside the == symbols in section headers, or to put quote marks around reference names. More importantly, please take a look here, at Cyberbullying directly after the edit that you made. You had put spaces at the beginnings of many paragraphs, causing them to look

 like this.

That's the kind of thing you need to fix before moving on to another page. It's your responsibility to do so. If you are editing rapidly on many pages in a short amount of time, then you need to slow down. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:43, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I had noticed that one of my regex changes was doing that and corrected it quickly. I went back and tried to fix all of the pages it had thrown off and must have just missed that one. My vision is kind of blurred, which is why I like to make sure there is one line above and below each section heading and the == symbols are separated from the content of the section header. It just makes it easier to read as it is not all bunched up. I'm not going in to "just" add those spaces and quotes, but instead I'm doing it as part of a process changing/correct many little inconsistencies. If I'm going to edit a page anyways to correct spelling or the formatting of things that are displayed, I don't see a problem with making the rest of the article easier for me to read, especially when I intend to go back and do more work to the article on other aspects of the content. I've noticed that the quotes around reference names is done automatically by citation bot and some of the wikEd fixes, so I don't feel that it is wrong at all for me to do that. Anyways, I thank you for your input and have made some modifications to my regex for the MOS:LQ thing. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 23:58, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Copyvio tool

1. Google search a suspicious sentence. Use the Duplication Detector: http://toolserver.org/~dcoetzee/duplicationdetector/
2. Request a review from CorenSearchBot by adding the title here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CorenSearchBot/requests
3. Wikipedia:Turnitin is a massive pending exploration to use a proprietary document comparison database and index, expecting in 3-9 months
4. More tools: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Copyright_Cleanup/Resources#Tools_that_may_be_of_assistance_in_copyright_investigations

Good luck! Ocaasi ^{t | c} 13:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback's from Soni about Small TH badge

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at TheOriginalSoni's talk page.
Message added 23:07, 27 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:07, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:55, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 00:15, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 00:18, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

BTW, I'm stalking your talk page, no need to add a talkback for every post. ;) Technical 13 (talk) 00:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 01:10, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

FYI

Hi. I don't really know if you are aware of this, but Fladrif, one of the people involved in the recent discussion at Template talk:Bullying, has been blocked indefinitely per a discussion at ANI. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:45, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

LOL Thank you, that will be interesting to read when I have a moment. Technical 13 (talk) 20:56, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Non-free files

Looks like it's unwinnable at the moment, sorry about that :( FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

don't know why you're wasting time trying common sense on the anti-fair use fanatics. they have difficulty with nuance; policy is what they want it to be; they're never changing. just clog the undelete image queue, with all the images from drafts, that are now articles. Slowking4^{Farmbrough's revenge}⇔ †@1₭ 19:08, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim." - Jorge Ruiz de Santayana. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

yes, it's not that i don't disagree with the goal of more free images; it's that i see every image as an improvement; the good free images will displace the old "fair use" ones. they don't believe this point, they only believe in win - lose. Slowking4^{Farmbrough's revenge}⇔ †@1₭ 19:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Ick, in other words a full fledged RfC is the only way to get anywhere there? *sigh* I'll draft up an official and "clear" proposal in the next few days. I have a couple other proposals I want to RfC anyways. Technical 13 (talk) 19:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

You're making me anxious. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 20:05, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Lee Tru.'s talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

IRC confirmation

HI THERE

Do you have time for the List of gymnasts

If you remember, the flags are deemed to be desirable. and you have the skill to "make it so" as they sometimes say. :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 14:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

It's been awhile... Refresh my memory please... Also, I have AWB permissions now, so that might be handy. Technical 13 (talk) 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Easy to refresh, less easy (for me) to do. Each country group is the headline in a table. I Rhythmic Gymnasts, the headline is the exciting code which gives the flag and nation. In other areas it is the nation name alone. An MOS guru has said that flags are correct i an article of this type. So your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to rep[lace country identifiers in the table headings ONLY, with the flag template for the relevant nation. If, of course, it is the same labour as doing it manually, feel free to leave alone. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 14:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

All flagged up... Technical 13 (talk) 15:54, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Easy when you know how :). I, by contrast, do not. :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 22:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
	For your constant improvements and input to the AfC WikiProject! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 14:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

AFCH

I just wanted to explain you why I didn't take your code for the HR-removal: If you check the last revision of afc_beta.js you will see that I have sadly put this code at multiple locations (bad coding, should be cleaned up), my regex tests the full page for 4 or more - from the beginning of the line to the end (and no other code/text in that line).

If you still want to play with regex, go to http://www.regextester.com/ and test your code. I use it a lot when changing or searching for a good regex. If you're still interested in developing AFCH, feel free to do it; as I said: help is welcomed. mabdul 05:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I actually use the ReGex tester that is part of WP:AWB. Your regex looks fine as well, I always forget about the ^start end$ delimiters. The only thing you may want to adjust on that one is to cut it back from {4,} to {3,} because there really isn't any reason for anyone to have more than two sequential -- if we're not allowing <hr>...</hr>. Also, I haven't checked, but does the current script search for the HTML tags for those as well? And, while we are on that subject, does the clean up section currently go through and wikify to any extent? Does it fix <br>, <br />, <p>...</p>, <b>...</b> → '''...''', <i>...</i> → ''...'', fix html tables into wikicode(I can link a script that does shortly for example...), etc? I think it would be great if it did. Technical 13 (talk) 11:14, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Be careful: every programming language has its own regex implementation and small differences in the code. regextester.com is actual based on JavaScript and thus should also work in the AFCH code.

Two minuses doesn't generate a HR; Three also doesn't; but four, see:

- -- ---

---

Other HTML tags are on the list, although we have to be very careful with multiple BRs (and sole BR). Feel free to develop HTML regex replacer. You might also have a look at userscript which are available at enwp, e.g. auto ed or advisor.js. (Don't reinvent the wheel!) Another long term plan is to include something like the MOSNUm script and adding {{Use dmy dates}}/{{Use mdy dates}}.

Since you already got the admin bit at testwiki, simply change my common.js and load it within your skin, so that we are always working on the same basis. mabdul 12:50, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Technical13

You are alwys helping me out. What can I do for you?  Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:32, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Technical 13

Hi! I am Gtwfan52. I've been around Wikiland for about a year and a quarter, altho in the last two months I haven't been able to be very active due to some personal circumstances. I see that altho you have been here longer than I you haven't been real active before this year. Everyplace in Wikiland needs extra hands and thank you so much for lending yours.

I have been at the Teahouse almost since it started and I have seen a lot of what has gone on there. I am writing you to kinda caution you about your recent comments there under the header Editing Locked Pages. I agree with you that the user in question is probably very young. The old hands at the Teahouse have seen this before. I actually only saw two edits that were not blatant vandalism, even if that was not the user's intention. If someone's mindset is so immature that the only way they can express themselves is with words like "awesomest" (which isn't really even a word!), they probably will not have the maturity to make responsible editing decisions. As I said, we have seen this before. Being young does not disqualify a person from editing on Wikipedia; however, being immature probably does. There is no age limit attached to that, either. We have all seen plenty of adults that are too immature to successfully edit Wikipedia.

As far as becoming an adoptor, do you really think that is wise? I can be pretty headstrong, and sometimes I think I know all there is to know about Wikipedia...right up to the time when something happens that makes me realize I don't. Your recent history of being blocked, and making several requests to get unblocked before you were successful make me think that you might be a better candidate to be adopted, rather than adopting someone else. I don't mean that to sound mean or judgmental, but an editor with less than 5000 edits and no articles created is probably not the best person around to be adopting others.

We are all here to create a better encyclopedia. Part of that is understanding what our personal limitations are. Many people have suggested to me that I would be a good admin, but I personally do not feel anywhere near ready for that. Heck, I am not confident enough to be an adopter yet. I do not want to discourage you from your endeavors here at Wikipedia and I am writing you as a friend (I hope) to try to help you see that you may be over-reaching, something that others have also cautioned you about. I will always be happy to talk with you about any subject you may wish to discuss and I hope you listen to what I have said and take it for what it is, friendly advice from someone who is fairly close to being your peer, experience-wise, but has spent a considerable amount of time helping people learn their way around here.

If you want to see an example of what I am talking about with immature young users, search "Deidra" in the Teahouse archives and then chase down some of her edits and activities. Happy editing. Gtwfan52 (talk) 04:28, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I've only really been active on Wikipedia for about two months now. However, I'm hardly new to wikiland. I'm an administrator on many other wikis and a bureaucrat as well. I've seen trolls and vandals, I've battled with them, blocked them, deleted them, and heck, I've even had to induce fairly large range blocks to prevent them from coming back (and it worked). I've almost completed User:Nerdfighter's WP:CVUA course and have a fairly reasonable grasp on what vandalism is on wikipedia.

Your own comment above says, "I actually only saw two edits that were not blatant vandalism, even if that was not the user's intention." Having read and studied WP:DONTBITE, WP:VANDAL, M:TROLL, and WP:AGF quite extensively lately, we are warned to not assume bad faith, and if the edits are not made in bad faith (as in that was not the user's intention), then they are not vandalism. Also, due to the fact that some newcomers may resemble vandals in some aspect, when they really do not intend to be, I felt it prudent to "offer" them a chance to get help. I expect to be putting in requests for rollback and reviewer rights within the next month, and likely I'll be submitting my RfA within another six months after that.

I am hesitant as well to adopt users at the moment, which is why my section for the list of adopters page is still on my User:Technical 13/On Hold page. That being said, my involvement with the Teahouse, Help Desk, and the Pumps as well as my involvement with AfC and the CVU, not to mention my four total years of wiki editing makes me inclined to think that such an immature, if not young, user would benefit from any advice and guidance I could offer them. That being said, if I was asked a question or posed a situation I did not know the answer to off-hand, I'm in no way too ashamed or shy to track down the answer (I'm almost starting to get good at navigating the policies and essays, they're horribly set up) or ask someone else that I think would know the answer or would know how to find it.

I appreciate your input, and do not at all take offense to it. I feel that I'm slightly more qualified than you may be led to believe. Although a minor thing, I'm apparently trusted enough to have the administrator bit on test.wikipedia for the purposes of testing modifications to the AFCH script. (You may check out my request here if you like. ;) Technical 13 (talk) 12:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Talk:List of gymnasts.
Message added 07:26, 3 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Fiddle Faddle (talk) 07:26, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar

Thanks! :) What do you think of my new barnstar?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:22, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

It looks fine to me Miss Bono. :) Technical 13 (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks :P Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Afc proposal

Dear Technical 13:

I am sorry that I haven't replied to your offer to help out with my proposed Afc addition. Sleep, eight hours of work on a 200 page conference syllabus and an afternoon folk jam session intervened.

After reading the changes and additions that some of the editors suggested, I've added a couple of new items to the flow chart. You have convinced me that page reloads will not totally do what is needed. You suggest using Javascript. I have used Javascript that others have made on my web sites and occasionally modified some to fit my needs, but I won't be much help because I am too bogged down with the conference I'm chairing to bring myself up to speed. One of the other editors pointed out that not everyone has Javascript turned on in their browsers, and that that might be a problem. I don't know how common this is, and whether using PHP instead would be better. You seem more familiar with this, so maybe you will know.

Your talk page here says that you are having exams, and I don't want to interfere with this. If you are too busy to undertake this, please say so and I will ask Peterb or mabdul. —Anne Delong (talk) 21:58, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I have about one more week of exams and then I'm done with this semester and preparing for the next. I'd be happy to try and put a skeleton design together next week. If you're looking to get it done sooner, you can ask one of the others (I'd suggest starting by asking Writ), and I'm sure they would be happy to work with you on it as well. :) Technical 13 (talk) 23:01, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Deletion discussions

Just an FYI that deletion discussions use bullet points opposed to numbering. There are two main reasons: !votes are mixed together keep/delete/redirect/merge etc. so counting would only give you a total of all !votes, and secondly the outcomes are decided on argument merits and not majority. There is also no hard fast rule for how many !votes a discuss needs in order for an outcome to occur. If the !vote count is low it becomes a soft delete. I only mention this because you changed my comment format, and I was going to change it back by Gene already beat me to it. Cheers, Mkdw^talk 01:33, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

• I hope (s)he fixed mine too. I'm super tired and had a brainfart and did the symbol left handed instead of right. Sorry about that. It should be speedied anyways as the page creator blAnked the page which was reverted improperly and its been mostly bot edits sinCe then. Anyways, goodnight. Technical 13 (talk) 01:46, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar award

		The Reviewer Barnstar
		Technical 13, Thanks for all the help you've give me in creating my first article on Wikipedia -- Warm Mouse. I appreciate your help. 301man (talk) 02:37, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

My fascination with articles

I know you love the technical side of things, but are you starting to see the fascination with articles?

As an example, I loved the act Spelbound when I saw them on TV, found they had an article, but their flying star, Edward Upcott had no personal article. Since he's a world champion athlete I knew he deserved one, so created it, despite having no interest at all in any form of gymnastics except to admire the skill shown. I decided it wasn't sufficient to create only his article, so created articles for his championship partners, then looked at Spelbound again and saw that there were others from the troupe who were championship quality.

Having created them I saw that the List of gymnasts existed, but was restricted to Artistic and some Rhythmic athletes, so I extended it to add the first few acrobats. Then I disliked the layout and had a crack at handling that. I'll bet AWB or a similar tool would have been a great help. I did the lot manually. Go me!

What I find is that the discipline of writing neutral articles is a great challenge. My trade before I retired was marketing, where I had to wrote bullshit and hype! Being able to understand NPOV made me better at marketing, a paradox.

I've also found that I end up researching areas where I never knew I had an interest! SOmetimes that interest lives on after the article is complete. Upcott, for example, is a stupendous athlete and an asthmatic. That I find of great interest for asthmatic kids today, whcih is why I developed it to a DYK.

All of that is a technical challenge. It isn't an IT challenge, but I had enough of those as an Algol programmer, back when Pontius was a pilot. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 20:38, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Re "Help me"

Thanks for your prompt reply. This is the problem we want to solve. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:08, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Problem solved. Thanks for your help. Pdfpdf (talk) moments later...

You're welcome. I prefer not to have things deleted from my talk page, so I've restored this edit and added your edit summary as a subsequent message in the section. Happy Editing! Technical 13 (talk) 14:19, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

My apologies. I wrongly assumed you wouldn't want your talk page cluttered with my no longer relevant postings. I'm more than happy you want to preserve them. And once again, thanks for your help. Pdfpdf (talk) 14:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem... Yeah, I'll be moving everything Pre-May in a few days into User talk:Technical_13/2013/1, so this page will get a lot shorter then...  ;) Technical 13 (talk) 14:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Hi Technical 13. I appreciate your enthusiasm to help others in arguments for the better of Wikipedia. You are right to say that 'Editing Wikipedia is not suppose to be so stressful'. So take it easy and have a great new day. Cheers, New worl (talk) 14:02, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: List of Kirby: Right Back at Ya! episodes

I have declined this speedy, because the reason you gave is not a valid speedy criterion. The possible reasons for speedy deletion are carefully and narrowly defined: before you tag any more, please read WP:CSD#List of criteria, and also WP:CSD#Non-criteria. If you cannot find a reason in the list that applies, the page is almost certainly not eligible for speedy deletion. This particular page may well be unsuitable for Wikipedia, but you must use PROD or AFD. JohnCD (talk) 14:19, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you JohnCD for your time as an administrator to evaluate. I feel they read as a promotional fansite, and I tagged them as such (one was dependent on other), and you don't agree. I'll PROD them both next and then nominate for AfD if needed. Have a nice day and happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 14:32, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

"I feel they read as a promotional fansite" That's NOT a valid reason for requesting deletion of an article, *Feelings* aren't a valid reasoning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IDL#I_don.27t_like_it --Vaati the Wind Demon (talk) 16:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Not so at all. "I feel that it is promotional" means "my assessment is that it fails to satisfy the Wikipedia policy that articles must not be promotional", which is a perfectly valid reason to propose deletion. That is not at all the same as the point linked to at I don't like it, which is about arguing for deletion purely on the basis of personal opinion, without reference to Wikipedia policy. Two quite different uses of the concept "I feel". JamesBWatson (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

If that where the case as you are saying it is, then that means I'm allowed to say *I feel that it does NOT read as a promotional fansite*, that's my assessment. --Vaati the Wind Demon (talk) 16:46, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

As you may already know, Vaati the Wind Demon has contested the deletion proposal. If you choose to take it to WP:AfD then I wish you luck. In my opinion (and yes, this time it is an "I don't like it") all of these "list of episodes" articles should go, but whether you will get consensus for that view at AfD is another matter. You may do. JamesBWatson (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks James, it's already up at AfD... Unfortunately, my exact reason of "Article reads as a promotional fansite" isn't listed anywhere on WP:IDL. Anyways, hit the AfD for it and make your comments and position known. Thanks Technical 13 (talk) 16:40, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you should do some further research on deletion policy. The AFD has been closed as "keep" after less than 24 hours of discussion (usually anything remotely debateable lasts for 7 days.) It really was a poor nomination in both wording and concept; AFD is not clean up, and lets be real, a nationally televised cartoon based on a long-running video game of a major video game corporation, is going to have enough coverage in reliable sources to meet the notability guidelines pretty much every single time. If you're unhappy with a article's status like this, you either need to clean it up yourself, or leave clean-up tags for others, because deletion isn't going to be warranted. Sergecross73 msg me 12:44, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Eva Moskowitz and the draft

In case you miss what I added to my talk page responding to your posts: No further history mergers should be performed on my work, because of the answer to the question about the process. Thanks. Nick Levinson (talk) 16:49, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I actually looked at the edit histories for your draft page and the actual article before I suggested the histmerge. There was only one or two minor overlapping edits and I found the edits in your draft significant enough and in stages to suggest the histmerge. The most important factor is to look at the edit histories for both the draft and the article and see how many edits overlap, and how significant those edits are. If there is no major overlap, I recommend you to request a histmerge. Technical 13 (talk) 16:55, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Counting items in numbered list

Hey—thanks for the response. I'm interested only for WP purposes, if you can dig up anything I'd find useful. Even a starting place would be good. Thanks again czar · · 01:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi

Did my answer at the teahouse talk work??  Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thank you, it was very informative to me. :) Technical 13 (talk) 18:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you making some research or something??  Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the or something. I'm trying to find out if people think it would be better to attach the "respond to this" link to the heading which is guaranteed to always be there or to the "[edit]" link which "might" not be in some extremely rare cases. Technical 13 (talk) 19:58, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the ALWAYS is always better than the IN SOME EXTREMELY RARE CASES.... just in case. ;)  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:08, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Then you should mention that on the other page... Technical 13 (talk) 20:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

 Done--  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Template talk:User wikipedia/Administrator.
Message added 22:42, 9 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

— Mr. Stradivarius on tour ^{♪ talk ♪} 22:42, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thanks for the quick simple response. SmerkInYourEyes (talk) 00:41, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Technical 13/2013/2. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 13:48, 11 May 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

You've got mail!

Hello, Technical 13/2013. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 19:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

AutomaticStrikeout  !  C  Sign AAPT  19:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Technical 13/2013/2. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 17:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Syntax error in Reflist editing of UK council makeup

I'm not sure if this was specific to your own editing, or something more general that needs to be fixed in AWB, but the part of the changes you made today in Political make-up of local councils in the United Kingdom orphaned two sections of references. See the page history for specific details. Basically, the correct syntax within a template's curly braces for group references is either "{{References group=..." or "{{Reflist|group=..." ; you can't enter the latter without the | as you did by replacing the former with "{{Reflist group=...". I don't know the technical reasons; I just found out from the error message that first became visible after your own edit. Good luck with exams. —— Shakescene (talk) 00:38, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that is one of my custom ReGex replaces that I set up to remove some of the ambiguity of the "references" header and convert <references /> to {{Reflist}}. It was an odd occurrence/way to use references (first time I have seen it in 3k+ articles and I have noticed that someone else edited the article after me and I noticed it while reviewing the change. (I like to check because I'm curious how efficient these tags are in getting things fixed and updated). Anyways, I've gone back and think I've fixed the instance. :) Happy editing. Technical 13 (talk) 00:44, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) To be precise, neither "{{References group=..." nor "{{Reflist group=..." are valid: this would require an equals sign to occur within a template name, which is something we simply don't do. <references /> with no attributes may be replaced directly with {{reflist}} with no parameters, and vice versa; but it becomes more complicated when <references /> has attributes or {{reflist}} has parameters. <references group=groupname /> may be replaced directly with {{reflist|group=groupname}}, but the converse is not necessarily true, particularly when special groupnames like lower-alpha are used. It becomes more complicated when other attributes or parameters are involved, since few have a direct 1:1 equivalence.

The <references /> MediaWiki extension is older than {{reflist}}, and indeed {{reflist}} invokes <references /> internally, but extends its functions. Originally, the only difference between them was that <references /> used a 100% font size, and {{reflist}} used 88%. Towards the end of 2011, they were both altered to use 90% which made them interchangeable for most purposes; but by that time, additional features had been added to {{reflist}} that were not possible in <references /> such as multiple columns (November 2006) which is why we still have both. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not to be rude Rose, and I really appreciate the history lesson on the topic, but what point were you trying to make? Or was the history lesson the point?

My current ReGex replaces (={2,5})( ?)(.*?)( ?)(={2,5})(\n)(\n*?)(<|\{\{)ref(erences|list)(.*?)( ?/?>|\}\})(\n*) with $1 References $1$6{{Reflist$10}}$6$6 and I'm thinking to take into account the edge case this particular article presented (<references group=groupname />), that I'm going to modify it to replace (={2,5})( ?)(.*?)( ?)(={2,5})(\n)(\n*?)(<|\{\{)ref(erences|list)( ?\|)?(.*?)( ?/?>|\}\})(\n*) with $1 References $1$6{{Reflist{{SUBST:#ifeq:$10|||{{SUBST:{{!}}}}$11}}$6$6 or something like that so that it adds a | if one doesn't exist. I'll test it, and if it becomes more of a hassle than a benefit I'll revert it and just try to keep a better eye out for those 1 in 3K articles with some kind of

<references group=groupname /> in them. Technical 13 (talk) 11:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

It's in my very first sentence. One of you seems to be under the impression that "{{References group=..." and "{{Reflist group=..." are valid formats. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:31, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't see that. I assumed User:Shakescene meant "<References group=..." or "{{Reflist|group=..." Either way... I've modified my ReGex search replace to search (={2,5})( ?)(.*?)( ?)(={2,5})(\n)(\n*?)(<|\{\{)ref(erences|list)\|? ?(.*?)( ?/?>|\}\})(\n*) and replace it with $1 References $1$6{{Reflist{{SUBST:#ifeq:$10|||{{SUBST:!}}}}$10}}$6$6 so that issue shouldn't be an issue again. Technical 13 (talk) 12:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar for you :)

		The Instructor's Barnstar
		This Barnstar is awarded to Wikipedians who have performed stellar work in the area of instruction & help for other editors. I hereby award you with instructor's barnstar for helping me in many cases Mohammad Sabbir♥ 03:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

common Js.

could you look at this and try to get it to work, please? -- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 19:45, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

A belated welcome!

Sorry for the belated welcome, but the cookies are still warm!

Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Technical 13. I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:

• Introduction
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• How to write a great article
• Editor's index to Wikipedia

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page, consult Wikipedia:Questions, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there.

Again, welcome! Thus Spake Lee Tru. 19:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, thanks for the plate of cookies, but I'm not sure what all the links are about. LOL Technical 13 (talk) 19:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Well... I noticed you had some trouble w/ your signature, so I though I should remind you about the four tides (~~~~) (smile) Thus Spake Lee Tru. 20:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I just couldn't help but read this section. Lee Tru, are you sure it was Technical 13 the one with signature problems??  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:37, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

My Signature

Could you help me change the color of my signature. I want each word in "Lee Tru." to be a different color. Thanks! -- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 19:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Try replacing your current signature with this in your preferences. Cheers! This code {{User:Lee_Tru./signature}}. Also, if you want to change the colors just click here ---> User:Lee_Tru./signature Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• No, no, no! That violates WP:SIG#NT and that layout is horrible for someone with vision problems (like me). What colors do you want what words Lee? Use {{Color box}} to show me. Technical 13 (talk) 19:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I told her/him (IDK) that she could change the colours. I also have vision problems. Sorry for the messed-up  Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

So, my signature is all wrong??? :O  Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you using a template for your signature Miss Bono? Technical 13 (talk) 19:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I think I am. Oops!. Someone told me to. Check User:Miss Bono/Sign. Because the text was too large to put it on the Preferences' signature field.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

A starbarn for you!

	Teahouse Barnstar
	For your brilliant answer at WP:Teahouse --Tito Dutta (contact) 01:03, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Lost connection

Not actually seeing your suggestion, not why I am loosing connection, hopefully it sorts itself out. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 12:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Technical 13/2013/2. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:07, 15 May 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

I left you a note at the top question. Could you please reply :) Also, I guess I was wrong about the ANI. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Sinebot

The answer to your question as to why Sinebot did that is simply that the OP didn't add their own signature until a few minutes later. - David Biddulph (talk) 14:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

RE:Teahouse discussion

Hey, I talked to yunshi and we agreed it should be deleted, but closing works for me. Can you hat it too? It has already drawn in one new editor and i would hate to see it draw more. That technical crap baffles me.  :) Gtwfan52 (talk) 16:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from [[{{{1}}}]], which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{prod}} template back to the article. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! Mohammad Sabbir♥ 16:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello and Thanks for the helping hand ;)

User:Ugncreative Usergname/userboxen/InOneDay. This a userbox with the same function I'd like for mine. As for the colours, I would like it follow the pattern of all the other WP U2 userboxes. Here's a sample of the Userbox and the text on it, replacing the "owns an iPod" for "its favourite U2 album is" and the when the user post the name of the album the little square shows the name of the album with a pict above or something. Tell me if you don't understand my bad English :'( Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm actually pretty good at deciphering your bad English Miss Bono . I don't have a lot of time to hunt things down... Can you give me a link to:

• all the other WP U2 userboxes
  • WP:WikiProject U2/Userboxes
• The list or category of all of the U2 album names
  • U2_discography#Studio_albums
• The category with all of the U2 album covers
  • Category:U2 album covers 122 album covers in there... Are there any specific ones you want?.

Yeah, Just the Studio Albums... including Original Soundtrack I by Passengers (aka U2 ft. Brian Eno)

With that information, I can make you a nice customizable userbox. I've made a lot like what you want, and you can check them out User:Technical 13/Userboxes Technical 13 (talk) 16:59, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm on it. It's my english that bad???? :O Miss Bono (zootalk) 17:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

No dear, it's not that bad to me, I'm just an English Grammar Nazi. Technical 13 (talk) 17:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank God! :) I thought I was exterminating English Language. Miss Bono (zootalk) 17:22, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how to fix this Category:U2 Albums I create the WP:WikiProject U2/Userboxes and you can find a list of U2 song here U2_discography Miss Bono (zootalk) 17:35, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

• No worries Miss Bono. I have all of the info I need I believe. I'll echo you if I need more. ;) Technical 13 (talk) 18:10, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok, Technical 13. let me know when you are done. hey!... thanks again. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Miss Bono, I may have some bad news. I've been working on this in my head and just remembered that all of your album covers won't be usable for an userbox because they are all non-free content Do you have a generic image that you would rather use or some other alternative that we can put in there? We could also create something that resembles the essence of the covers and upload them to commons as they will be our own work and release them with the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License. So, to summarize, do you have free-image alternatives, want to create some graphics, or want to use text instead of the album coverart? Technical 13 (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

When you asked me for the album covers I was gonna tell you about that non-free content but then I thought you had something in your mind. I would like to create something that resembles the essence of the covers. Do you have any idea?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

•  Working Technical 13 (talk) 20:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

B4 you keep on working wpuld you mind give me some ideas?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:26, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Did you make something with the userboxes?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Not yet dear. It's on my list of things to make some progress on today... Let me build the body of the userbox and we'll figure out the image/alternative after. Technical 13 (talk) 12:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tech 13. You know, I like the "dear" word, it reminds me of Bono, he is always using that word with women :) Thanks for that too. Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, you now have a starting point for your new userbox that uses {{User WikiProject U2 fav-album|(album name) }} and looks like:

Code	Result
{{Template:User WikiProject U2 fav-album}}	This user's favorite U2 albums are:    All of them!	Usage
{{Template:User WikiProject U2 fav-album|Under a Blood Red Sky}}	This user's favorite U2 album is:    Under a Blood Red Sky	Usage
{{Template:User WikiProject U2 fav-album|Under a Blood Red Sky}}	This user's favorite U2 album is:    Under a Blood Red Sky	Usage

Wao, I am impressed. Thank you very much for your time... Want some Barnstar?? ;P

		The Special Barnstar
		Thank you for helping me with those stuffs I still don't know how to deal with Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

LOL we are not done with your new userbox Miss Bono... That is just the beginning. I still intend on going through the list of albums and adding to the tester I have in the template so that all of the albums will be recognized (that are on that list) and linked to the appropriate article for the album. We also still need to figure out what should go in the "image" section of the template. Technical 13 (talk) 15:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, I am sorry, but it's a great begining. I'll ask Pjoef to see if he can give some ideas for the "image" Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:41, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Guestbook

I just created my guestbook, i'd like you to sign it. and feel free to spread the news. Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

have you sign it?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:58, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. You are far better than Bono. All of my friends are far better than he is. Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:14, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• Awww... So sweet of you! Hope your bf doesn't get jealous! Technical 13 (talk) 19:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

My bf is not a jealous guy, he knows my heart only belongs to him and I'd die before setting my eyes on another man. Also he knows that I ♥ you know who like mad that's the only man my bf would get jealous of :) And even if Bono tells me he wants to be with me, I would never ever leave my bf... He is my real Bono. Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

(Random dude strolling around) For half a second I thought you know who was linked to this guy. Not surprisingly, I was confused. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 20:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Nah, that would be He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Technical 13 (talk) 20:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I know who is Lord Voldemort, and I like Harry Potter movies (not a fan but I like them). I was just joking. Guys, I am not a girl who knows only about one specific theme!... I'm a pro lol...... :) No, seriously, I was just joking with Bono and Voldemort... Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:11, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

how's the work on the userbox?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

You may have to create...

... and populate those categories now :) Fiddle Faddle 17:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

LOL I figured you would just "undo" that... I was cracking up laughing when I did it... I might have to make some userboxes that populate those categories... LOL Technical 13 (talk) 17:32, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I Like them! Go to it with a will and create them! Fiddle Faddle 21:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse

Thanks. There was an edit conflict and I was indenting in what I thought at the time was the proper way. You did what you did correctly. And the notification system works!— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 20:12, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

References

1. First - Set up archiving on your talk page. Get Cluebot or Miszabot
   • No thanks...
     • Seriously, please do so. Your page is infinitely long already, and is a terrible pain to navigate. Why not archive all sections which are not relevant?
       • Really, I'm not interested in any of the archival bots. I archive my page once a year (I've thought about changing it to quarterly since I've become more active and apparently somewhat popular). I'm also working on a way to make it more navigable, but haven't exactly figured out the HTML/CSS to do it yet.
         • Alright. Bot or no bot is your choice, but once a year is seriously ridiculous. Once a month is good. ore than that is huge.
2. Second - Make me awesome design that I can use on my User page/redesign my user page.
   • Sure, but it is close to the bottom of a long list of things I want to get done.
     • Alrighty :)
3. Third - Look into the various references errors and how they show up currently whenever anybody makes an error. Those are the most primitive thing on Wikipedia currently, and probably in built into MediaWiki interface - You might have to go a little deep, maybe into Bugzilla to see it through.
   • Why?
   • What are you looking to gain?
   • Userscript?
   • FAQ page?
     • Looking to gain? Less confusion. From one of the people at -help, I realised how seriously unhelpful those referencing error displays are, and how confusing they look. Anyone without experience in referencing here is not likely to understand and fix them by themselves. Which is why I thought maybe I should try and get it solved. Then I went directly to the one person whom I remembered who can help fix this issue (since its beyond what I can do).
     • A userscript or an FAQ will be more like a "patch" solution, but not applicable for all editors. A direct solution will get it solved for everyone.
       • Oh, so you are looking for the WP:Lua module that drives the error messages to be more descriptive in its messages? If that is the case, I'm not your guy as I know nothing about Lua, yet... You "may" want to ask Redrose64 as I know she is involved in the citation module that creates those error messages.
         • →→→→→ moved this discussion to User talk:Redrose64#Ref errors
4. Fourth - Figure out a way to show an error whenever ref tags are used after using {{reflist}}, and correct it/display the appropriate error accordingly.
   • You mean like what the WP:AFCH script does?
   • You want a separate script for that?
     • What I meant is that the current page does not search for any references below the reflist. If there are any, it displays the "There is no reflist" message (Not sure what it exactly was) instead of "The reflist is placed at the wrong place". I'm wondering how that can be solved.
       • I think I understand the question now and will see if I can figure out the problem in the templates. If I can figure out the problem (why it doesn't do what you think it should, as it might be part of the Cite extension itself), then we can figure out a solution and put it in a sandbox...
         • I think that was my original point. To see how the cite extension can be modified to take care of these errors (both of them)
5. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 22:17, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
   • Technical 13 (talk) 22:32, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
     • TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
       • Technical 13 (talk) 13:48, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
         • TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, This is another request asking you to shorten/archive your page using one way or another. Thank you. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 12:59, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

My Fancy TOC to ease in navigation to the bottom of the page isn't good enough for you? FTR, I saw a user talk page the other day with over 300 sections in it! I decided I want to beat that record! HA! Technical 13 (talk) 15:27, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Not really. I tend to have some days when my net connection is slower, and pages with so many sections take a ginormous amount of time then. So the TOC , while nice, doesnt solve the problem. Please archive your page. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 10:30, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank You For Helping ONEMADSCIENTIST. You appear to be a very good person. I forgot who the little green warty one was though- And also the others that were involved in Helping that crazy lunitic out. Thanks.--175.38.161.131 (talk) 12:22, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

OMS wants to say thanks for your advice :) kind Sir!. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.38.161.131 (talk) 07:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Just a little reminder Thank you for your Help, Patience, Kindness and Wise Advice. ♥ from --OneMadScientist (talk) 17:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. Feel free to leave a note on my talkpage any time you feel like a conflict is getting out of control and I'll help in anyway I can. If I'm not available, ask on the Teahouse or use the {{Help me}} template and someone will help you. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 17:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

(?)All your pages and contributions have been reviewed by OneMadScientist and his response is(??) — Preceding unsigned comment added by OneMadScientist (talk • contribs) 17:35, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

(?)I was just reviewing your contributions/discussions again T13, and all I can say is - WOW I thought I had issues (:p) - All your unblock requests denied etc SOOOOOO Funny I really laughed when I saw This -->

(See discussion above, I will assimilate) - in your unblock request.  

Yep "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE" - "YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED" and become a Borg drone. Ha HA HA (All the Best for your exams T13)--OneMadScientist (talk) 14:42, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Kephir's talk page.
Message added 22:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

(I am not a huge fan of this template.) Keφr 22:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

User:Paramsinghantaal

Hello sir, This is user Paramsinghantaal.I appealed for unblock and they gave me 'standard offer'.In this case i need an experienced editor or admin to which i can make my appeal for review.Can you help me in this matter. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.220.73.212 (talk) 06:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I would be happy to help you, unfortunately, I'm afraid I just came off of an indefinite ban less than two months ago myself and I'm not sure I would be of much use to you as an "experienced editor". If this hasn't been resolved for you by July 6th (the 3 month mark), I would be happy to be your adopter. Until then, I wish you luck! Technical 13 (talk) 12:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot sir.I will wait.If any solution comes for me in meantime,please inform me.My email is Paramantaal@yahoo.com.Thanks again.

Hello Param,

I am a slightly more experienced editor in this issue (though still quite unexperienced)

I think the best thing for you to do is to wait. For 6 full months. If you dont edit here (even as an IP) or ask for unblocks for 6 months, you can ask for the standard offer, and continue working here constructively.

Other than that, I already see there are several experienced editors saying your block was justified, so I dont think requesting for an unblock will help. After you come back, T13 and the rest of us would be happy to be helping you get along. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 12:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I disagree with you on this one TOS. I think six months is too long for anyone to have to wait. I think that if they take the time to read all of the applicable guidelines, policies, and essays for their block, can answer a questionnaire that shows they did in fact read through all of the suggested material and understand it, then there is no reason they should have to wait that long.

The standard offer mentions that the six-month threshold can be adjustable under special circumstances. If an editor shows an unusually good insight into the circumstances that led to the block, and sets out a credible proposal for how they will deal with those issues in future, then a return might be considered sooner.

It also mentions that banned users seeking a return are well-advised to make significant and useful contributions to other WMF-projects prior to requesting an en:return per this 'offer' as many unban-requests have been declined due to the banned user simply 'waiting' the six months out.

This all being said, Paramsinghantaal you need to do the following things:

1. Stop editing from IP addresses (you may use the "email this user" feature to email me instead).
2. Read through the following policies, guidelines, and essays (read them again and know them if you've already read them).:
   • WP:Editing policy
   • WP:Citing sources
   • WP:Verifiability
   • WP:Assume good faith
   • WP:Reverting
   • WP:Consensus
   • WP:Disruptive editing
   • WP:Edit warring
     • Specifically become acquainted with The three-revert rule
3. Read the WP:Guide to appealing blocks
4. Make significant and useful contributions to other WMF-projects:
   • If you know a language other than English, make some edits on the wiki for that language.
   • Edit articles on commons.wikimedia.org
   • Edit articles on en.wikibooks.org
   • Edit articles on en.wikinews.org
   • Edit articles on en.wiktionary.org
   • Edit articles on species.wikimedia.org
   • Edit articles on any other WMF site that you are knowledgeable in.

Email me when you have read through all of the material listed above and have a total of 100 useful edits on other projects and I'll put together your questionnaire. Technical 13 (talk) 12:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Not that my opinion should particularly matter, but T13, you quote that "the six-month threshold can be adjustable under special circumstances. If an editor shows an unusually good insight into the circumstances that led to the block, and sets out a credible proposal for how they will deal with those issues in future, then a return might be considered sooner." I don't see any such circumstances here; waiting the six months out is the least Paramsinghantaal can do after a solid month and a half of harassing Sitush, requiring multiple page protections to try to curb the abuse, and since Paramsinghantaal is still evading their block to now try to ask the proverbial other parent, hoping for better results than last time, it would appear that the point has still not gotten across. These things have been explained many, many times to them, with no effect. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 13:34, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I value your opinion and wisdom Writ Keeper, and I do have an understanding of what Paramsinghantaal has done. My question is; if he was to follow my list of things that need to be done and emailed me in a month or three saying that he read them all and understood them and could correctly answer all of the questions I asked based on the material that would confirm (or at least strongly imply) that he had indeed read and knows what it says and means and had made a good faith attempt to be constructive on other WMF sites (I'm sure my list will take a month or two to complete adequately), that it would not be reasonable to unlock his talk page to him at very least to apologize for his actions upon a request at WP:ANI (which I would honestly rather avoid visiting for now) by me on his behalf with any relevant email discussions disclosed? I am of the strong belief that everyone is worth a second chance as people grow and mature (albeit very slowly in some cases). If based on your experiences, my advice and list above would prove futile, I'll throw my hands in the air and {{Hst}} ... {{Hsb}} this discussion. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 13:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I quite agree that everyone is worthy of a second chance, and I'm not advocating taking Paramsinghantaal's away. With the 6-month standard offer, they will still have one. There are two points here against shortening that span, though. The first one is this: with the standard way of doing things available to them, Paramsinghantaal is asking for special treatment above and beyond that. This special treatment is supposed to be based on extraordinary realization and acknowledgement of Wikipedia's policies, yet it has taken 5 page protections, many IP blocks, and nearly two months since being blocked indefinitely for it for Paramsinghantaal to figure out that harassment of another editor is wrong, and the meter is still running for block evasion, despite both of these things being explained multiple times throughout the duration. Given that, I don't see any out-of-the-ordinary good behavior to suggest that a reduction of the standard offer is indicated; indeed, it's only just now that ordinary good behavior can be seen. The second reason is that what seems to be the root of Paramsinghantaal's problems is overzealous haste to get their preferred changes in and willingness to disregard Wikipedia policies to do it. Both of those issues seem to be what's driving Paramsinghantaal even now, and a display of the patience required to wait six months without editing from an IP like this, especially if paired with constructive contributions to other projects, would go a long way towards proving that Paramsinghantaal can master their hastiness and become a productive editor. Asking to shorten the span seems to show that they cannot, both in the question itself and in the evidence that such a shortened span provides.

Still, my word is not law, and I cannot see into the hearts of others more than anyone else, so do as you will. I don't think that waiting less than the full six-month term is likely to produce results, but who am I? I'm Jean Valjean! If you're right, then we're all better off. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:10, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Proposal at TAFI talk

A discussion that may interest you is occurring at Wikiproject TAFI's talk page at: Proposal: use Theo's Little Bot to automate the schedule and queue. Northamerica1000^(talk) 12:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at TheOriginalSoni's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

haha someone signed my guestbook lol J/K Take a look :P Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

AfC

There should definitely be a submission of the day award, although it could be interpreted as untactful. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

@FoCuSandLeArN: Oh my good lord... If the pictures were all gone (except "maybe" one), and the patent nonsense was cleaned up, there "might" be salvageable material there. →⇒≫ Technical 13 (talk) 17:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what his facial expression indicates...frustration, anger, constipation? FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

is "indifferent" Technical 13 (talk) 17:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

That guy sure gets around. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 17:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse for Spanish Wikipedia

Hi Technical 13. I was proposing in the Wikipedia:Café (Spanish Wikipedia) my idea for a Spanish Teahouse and some say that Wikipedia is not a forum, the thing is that I need page here, in the English Wikipedia where I can get an explanation about WHAT the Teahouse is (and I believe it is not a Forum)... so i can explain that to them at the ES WP. Sorry for my English I am hard put to finsih my real work in real life Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback from TechFilmer

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at TechFilmer's talk page.
Message added 17:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TechFilmer - Please reply on my talkpage 17:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

TechFilmer - Please reply on my talkpage 17:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

TechFilmer - Please reply on my talkpage 17:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

TechFilmer - Please reply on my talkpage 23:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your assistance on the 3O between myself and Jezebel's Pony. I appreciated the feedback and the opinion.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ...  20:01, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I really do hope to see that TfD for that template. I think it would be an interesting discussion. Also, as a sidenote, your signature is codded poorly, which I'll admit is a peeve of mine.. Would you like some help if fixing it? You might find <span style="border:1px solid #00F;padding:0.50x;" class="nowrap">[[User:KoshVorlon|<span style="color:#00F;">&nbsp;'''K'''osh'''V'''orlon</span>]]<span style="color:#FFF;background:#00F;">&nbsp;'''W'''e '''a'''re '''a'''ll '''K'''osh...</span></span> which renders like |  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh... | What do you think? Technical 13 (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Making the Teahouse a more (user) friendly place

	Teahouse Genie Badge
	Awarded to those who have solved issues on the Teahouse Wishlist. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
For your excellent redesign of the table of contents on the Teahouse questions page. A subtle but important design improvement. Thanks! - J-Mo Talk to Me Email Me 04:42, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
Thanks for helping me with my question on Table Formatting. I appreciate it! FGuerino (talk) 20:40, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

thanks for the invite

Panpog1 (talk) 01:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

TheShadowCrow TB discussion

What do you want to discuss? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 14:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

This attitude ⇑ is considered WP:BATTLEGROUND in my opinion. I would like to help you get your ban lifted, but I'm going to need you to work with me to do that. First thing I need to know is if you have withdrawn your request to have your topic ban removed? This is very important, and there is no reason not to do so at this time as your request has already been all but shot down. Technical 13 (talk) 14:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok I trust you. I've withdrawn it. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 14:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Awesome, that shows that you are willing to cooperate and take advice. The admins appreciate that. Now, I want you to explain to me in your own words why you think that this topic ban was imposed upon you. I don't want you to spend a lot of time telling me what others said or did; instead I would like to see a short but comprehensive explanation of the things you have done to place yourself in this position. Technical 13 (talk) 14:56, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the ban was imposed because I was being to hostile to others while editing. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 15:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

You don't think it had anything to do with a previous lack of awareness in identifying reliable sources for use on the biographies of living persons that have some verifiability? Technical 13 (talk) 15:50, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I forgot, it's been awhile. That too. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 16:10, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, well, tell me about how all of that works. What did you do, and why was it wrong according to those policies? Technical 13 (talk) 16:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I used the twitter of the article of the person in question as a source. Although WP:TWITTER said twitter is a reliable source, the account of the person wasn't verified, which made it uncredible. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 16:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Why didn't you repy? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:58, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I apologize for the delay in my response. I was looking further back at the actual edits that spurred this whole thing. Give me a few more minutes, still researching. Technical 13 (talk) 18:12, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I'm done looking at stuffs for now. I feel that based on other reliable sources that verify the subject's web page as being authentic and by extension that Twitter account as indeed belonging to him, that it probably would have satisfied WP:TWITTER. That being said, your WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude got your responses simply dismissed by everyone. I've also looked over some of the edits themselves and many of the things that you had changed were already existent in other parts of the article (and still were after the reversion by bear) although there were a lot of word choice changes that may have been considered change just for the sake of change as they didn't really alter the value of the content that much. My next question is, are you just wanting to edit articles in the realm of your topic ban, or are you perhaps interested in creating a few new ones? Technical 13 (talk) 18:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I am interested in editing Armenia related articles. Almost all of them are in need of a lot of work and I don't have as much of a desire to edit any other article right now. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 19:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by TheShadowCrow (talk • contribs)

I was hoping you would say that you were interested in creating some new BLP/Armenia related articles. If that was the case, I could go to bat at ANI tomorrow or the next day (let those involved today sleep on it, and you already earned a couple brownie points for your withdrawl) on your behalf saying that I think the the topic ban should be lifted for the sole purpose of you creating new articles in the realm of the ban under the condition that the articles are created at WP:AfC and reviewed before going "live". Then further state that after a reasonable number of new articles had been reviewed and approved as to alleviate any concerns over your ability to understand and comply with the BLP, RS, V, etc policies. What do you think? Might you like to create some new articles? Technical 13 (talk) 19:15, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I meant I also would like to create and edit articles. I actually have the blueprints to create about 15 new articles in my sandbox right now, as well as get rid of many stubs and add new categories. All that's really needed is a copy and paste. And there are still many more articles I plan to make. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 19:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay. I'll take a look at those and if the admins agree to allow you to create articles in AfC, then I'll help you get all of those submitted for review. Make sure that you don't move anything though. It's a long weekend here. It is currently 3:30pm here where I am, I'll make the request first thing Tuesday morning (about 8:00am) which is about 64 and a half hours from now. I'll make sure that I echo/notify you as well when I do. I want you to be aware of the ANI discussion I start, and read what is said, but do not respond to anything unless I ask you to. Okay? Technical 13 (talk) 19:37, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Understood and thanks. By the way, what's AfC?

It is the Wikipedia:Articles for Creation WikiProject. I encourage you to follow the links there. I'm heading out for the weekend and I'll get in touch next week.. I may pop in occasionally over the weekend, but if something important comes up, use the email link in the sidebar to get a hold of me. :) Technical 13 (talk) 20:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Appreciate your help. I can't find your E-mail and wanted to talk to you over it. If you're still dropping by, can you tell me it? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 01:30, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, it is Technial_—13@Yahoo_•com (Just the way it looks here, I use odd formating to trick spam bots if you try to read it from the edit window.) :) Technical 13 (talk) 12:34, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

My computer is giving me problems sending E-mails, so I'll just say it here: Do you think we will be able to get the ban lifted so that I can also edit, not just create articles? Also, thank you very much for your support. It makes a huge difference, as you probably know. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 01:51, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm having troubles just getting them to relax the ban... Your creation of some stuff in your personal sandbox bit us a little... Let's just take it one step at a time. Technical 13 (talk) 12:08, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

TheShadowCrow Okay, we got lucky that Dennis commented right after you unarchived the discussion and I kind of wish you had let me un-archive it, but it seems to not have been an issue. Do you understand my most recent comment to BearMan and what his concerns are? Technical 13 (talk) 02:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm really sorry I hadn't been on all day. I've been losing motivation to edit Wikipedia. I understood his concerns and know why I'm banned. What can we do now, if anything? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 02:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm waiting on a response from Dennis I'll get back to you on it shortly. Technical 13 (talk) 05:58, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

How did that go? I really, really want to get back to editing articles. It's really bothersome to do all this work and see no results. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:50, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

• You said you have some stuff in your sandbox? Can you link me to it? Dennis seemed to imply it was okay for you to create in your sandbox, but you should keep a low profile. Technical 13 (talk) 01:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I've got 629,211 bytes of information in my sandbox. Here is the link, but be warned, it will probably freeze your screen for a few minutes. This is what I have to go through everyday. And why? This ban seems to have more than served its purpose. Dennis admitted it wasn't justice. Over two months out of three should be plenty. What's really annoying me is when something important happens about the articles I'm working on. The Armenian national football team made an awesome 4-0 victory over Denmark a few days ago. I have done a lot of work into the team page, but instead everyone who went to look at it saw a less developed version.

• • How do I create articles in my sandbox? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 01:51, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

can't edit well from cell phone. will look and set you up with a new user draft system I've been working on tomorrow. Technical 13 (talk) 02:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Will I be able to create the page that way?

Also, is there a rule against stalking someones edits and making conflicts with them? I can prove BearMan did this several times and, like all trolls, will do so in the future and will be able to because the Admins are corrupt and stupid. Considering he stalks me with bad faith, I think that is alone to take the ban off now. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 02:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

There is no such rule per-say and you'll just get yourself into more trouble worrying about it. ;) Loading your sandbox now and will be shuffling some stuff around and setting you up with a new system I'm developing... Nothing will be lost even if you can't find it right away... No worries. :) Technical 13 (talk) 13:06, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but can I please undo your edit? This is just going to make things more complicated for me. At least this way I know where everything is. Where are you waiting on a response from Dennis? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 15:54, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, there was a typo that might have been an issue. There will be a navbox at the top of the page to get to the draft for each of the people. Having it all on one page is crashing the server for me, so it "has" to be split up... Trust in me, they will be easy to find and add new ones once I'm done... :) Technical 13 (talk) 16:44, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Technical, please. I really want to start my work for today and feel better off doing things my way. And where are you waiting on a response from Dennis? The only thing I want help on is getting this ban lifted --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:01, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Not waiting anymore. He has subtly said creating personal sandboxes is okay for you. Look at the top of User:TheShadowCrow/sandbox and you will see an input box with a bunch of links above it. Each of those links is an article. Just follow the link and edit. To create a new one, type the article (person) name in the input box and click the button and it will take you to a place you can create the article for that person. Really easy. Technical 13 (talk) 17:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Do I have no choice but to wait for the 11th now? And I can create (not edit) pages now? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, you are very lucky it wasn't deleted days ago according to this request --> Wikipedia:Miscellany for_ deletion/User:TheShadowCrow/sandbox. Basically, you have no choice. It has to be broken up or will be deleted completely. Dennis Brown, can you close that request as "keep but split"? Technical 13 (talk) 17:33, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

How about this: I revert your edits but create a Sandbox 2, where I'll do the rest of my edits. I really appreciate your effort, but I don't want to put my work all over the place. Can I create pages from my sandbox when they are ready? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:50, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

the deletion discussion I linked said that isn't acceptable... Once I get more of it done so the page size is down, it will be easy to see that everything is easily accessible from one place. All of them are still in one place, they will all be in User:TheShadowCrow/sandbox/name of person and they will all have easy to use links to get to them. Trust in me bud. :) Technical 13 (talk) 17:56, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• My original intent was to have a singular place, not a nest of articles. When I "authorized" working in the one sandbox, I was sticking my neck out, gambling on the goodwill I've built within the community. I actually have zero authority to allow such a thing, so I was only shifting the blame onto myself. Had the community wished, it could have sanctioned or censured me at that WP:AN discussion, hence my careful (and humble) wording in that last discussion. I don't think you realize the risk I took. Since the community was silent on the matter, I can only assume they tolerated my boldness, but they didn't condoned it. I don't recommend pushing it any further. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 18:31, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• I see Dennis Brown. I hadn't realized all of that. That deletion request due to page size is my concern at this moment. (Have you closed that as resolved yet?) I'm hoping that since technically I am creating the pages (hopefully they don't accuse TheShadowCrow of meatpuppetry especially since I am doing it of my own will against his request to prevent deletion of the sandbox due to pagesize and template inclusion restrictions which after moving 30 drafts out are still issues.) there will be no issue with it. Just a heads up TheShadowCrow, there are so many drafts in there, it may take me a while to split them all out appropriately. I suggest going through the ones I have split out and submit the ones you have completed to afc for review. In the userspace draft template at the top of the page there is a link and some instructions to do this. Technical 13 (talk) 18:41, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• He can not take those to AFC. He is topic banned. He has been given a little leeway by me (without proper authority) for the one sandbox. Anything else needs to be stored on his own computer and in no way can he submit to AFC, even by you, as that would be construed as violating the topic ban by proxy, which would drag you into it and subject you to sanctions. He isn't supposed to be editing ANYTHING related to the topic, this tiny exception is just that, an exception. And I can't close that discussion due to my involvement with it. You may be underestimating how severe a topic ban is. It is what is done as a last resort before someone is indef blocked, meaning he is already on the edge of that indef block now. It is not a good place to push the limits of the community. I know you are trying to help him, but your unfamiliarity might have the opposite effect, and that is beyond my control. This is a much more delicate and tenuous situation than you might think. Encouraging him to do more editing in this area is not a good idea. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 18:48, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• Okay. Well, let me ask you one more question Dennis. Should I stop splitting them out? The page is still too large and likely to be deleted, and I was just trying to prevent that. Should I/he move the whole package to his userspace on another wiki until his topic ban has expired? I don't want to cause any more trouble here than I seemingly already have, but I don't want him to have all of his draft work deleted and then have him have to request it all be undeleted first thing when he comes off ban either (as that might be construed as WP:STICK even though it really isn't in my opinion). Should we ask a few more people? Like NE Ent or TheOrigionalSoni or Writ Keeper? Technical 13 (talk) 18:56, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• He needs to move it himself, to his own computer or some place other than the English Wikipedia, then try to limit his sandbox to 150k or so, which is pretty generous. While it might look like I've been the bad guy here, I'm not. Quite the opposite, actually. If you look at the total discussions in my talk page archive, you might see why I may be more reluctant to do so for others in the future, sadly, as this generosity has come at a price on my talk page, at WP:AN, here and everywhere else at enwp. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 19:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• You don't seem like the bad guy at all Dennis. I wish there was someone that was an admin on both enwiki and the armanian wiki that could export from here and import there for him until the ban is over. Technical 13 (talk) 19:12, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oh but he is. One might even say he's a Menace. Since he has forbidden the multiple sandboxes, should your changes be reverted?
• And for you Dennis, is there any scenario where this ban gets lifted early? I tried editing non BLP and Armenian articles like you recommended and said that if I did, you'd support the ban being lifted (you didn't), but no one on the appeal gave that any significance. What must I do? Should I just stop editing Wikipedia altogether for some time? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 19:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• You have to show patience. As long as you are chomping at the bit to get the ban lifted, it likely won't happen. What happened the last time is exactly what I expected would happen. My vote would not have made a difference. You can either trust my judgement, or dismiss it, but I've been here a very, very long time and I'm pretty good at judging how the community will perceive a proposal. There is no point in proposing something that the community will reject, and it makes it much less likely it will pass in the future. Each failed attempt makes it more likely it will never pass. It has nothing to do with my vote. Impatience is your Achilles' heel. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 20:18, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
• How patient. How long. Be stop being indirect. I've waited over two months. I'm very patient. And should I take off Tech's changes? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

TheShadowCrow, I've reverted your reversion of my changes to your sandbox. I hate to be blunt, but what part of "It's very large, over 607,000 bytes, and when I try to edit it either whole or by section to comment out the categories Wikipedia times out. I couldn't even add the MFD notice at the top of the page." did you miss? Basically, it will be deleted if it isn't reduced to be less than about 250K so that it loads properly without timing out when attempts are made to edit it. If you insist on reverting again and making the size be unsurmountable, I will retract my objections to deletion, rescind my offer to try and help you here, and suggest it's deletion. Do you understand? Technical 13 (talk) 11:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

• I was under the impression that it had to be reverted, as Dennis had said. Also, I was thinking of giving an appeal one last attempt around the end of the month. Would you support or recommend that? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 02:14, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
  • The community is not complaining about it being broken down, and actually they appear to be helping to improve some of the sections. I wouldn't revert it, especially since that deletion discussion said that breaking it down was required. I've done some more research and although I'm still getting save errors, that may be due to the excessive number of transcluded templates and not solely the page size itself. I'll see if I can figure out what template(s) are the problem and getting it working right for you by the end of the week. As far as the other question, I wouldn't ask them to lift the ban until a week after it 'expires' at this point. Do as you will, but that is my recommendation. Technical 13 (talk) 17:32, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello Technical 13

Can I ask you if you had recently worked on my userbox¿¿ Please, reply at my talk. Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:17, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Miss Bono's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

 Done File:U2_Favourite_Album_for_UBX.png. Tell me what do you think?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:08, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Did you see it?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Code	Result
{{Template:User WikiProject U2 fav-album}}	This user's favorite U2 albums are:    All of them!	Usage

You sure you just want that one image? I was thinking you would make on for each... Also, the writing on that is too small to read for me... You may want to do something else. Like, for blood red sky... Go outside and take a picture (or find a free one on-line) of a red sunset (or any sunset and add an offset to the sky element to make it redder)... Just some suggestions... Technical 13 (talk) 20:01, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, you are right. I hadn't thought about it. I will work on it tonight at home. It is a hard work, there are 12 studio albums and i will have to search for related stuffs to each album. Thanks for the great idea. If you have one for Achtung Baby (the most difficult I think), tell me Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

How about or a crop of the most prominent piece of it since it symbolizes what the album was created in the face of? Technical 13 (talk) 21:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Let me say this. You are VERY COOL. Thanks!!

PS: how can i enclose my userboxes and my tops in a scroll bar. I want to to that in new user page.

Again. Thank you!! :) Miss Bono (zootalk) 21:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Helper script/Development page.
Message added 22:28, 24 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 22:28, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Rotate Image ??

Hi T13 could you please tell me if there is an easy way to rotate an image (thumb) 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 (of 360^o you know) when you get the chance. Thanks--OneMadScientist (talk) 14:53, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Just woke up from a nap. What image? Most images require downloading, rotating, and uploading the new rotated image. There might be a couple exceptions. Technical 13 (talk) 18:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

OH, OK, that's what Kelapstick said, I thought that maybe there was some simple code I could use for rotating any jpeg image similar to re-sizing it as a |thumb|. I'm surprised there isn't, with all this other cool stuff you can do - but no easy rotate?? surprising!!. But thanks anyhow :-). --OneMadScientist (talk) 18:41, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh its no big deal but the image I wanted to rotate was the Mandelbrot set image on my user page. if it is not easy then I'm not fussed. Thanks T13. --OneMadScientist (talk) 18:46, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very very much T13, I really appreciate it, you really should not have bothered but thank you, so I suppose that means there is no easy code way (I could use)?. Your computer skills scare me!! --OneMadScientist (talk) 04:01, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Yo T13, do you like what I did (on my user page) with those images you produced for me?, can you make heads or tails of it?. Thanks again for your help.--OneMadScientist (talk) 08:09, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Uplace

Dear Technical13, I didn't express myself well about the subject of Uplace, which is by you nominated for deletion. The article is more about the controversy about the case instead of WP:CRYSTALBALL. The plans are being put on a hold àfter coaltion problems. The article will be expanded and I will also add multiple sources. Perhaps you could revise your decision. --WjI-kop (talk) 07:56, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear T13, I have requested userfication at the article's entry at the AfD. --WjI-kop (talk) 12:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Happy Memorial Day!

AutomaticStrikeout  ?  is wishing you a Happy Memorial Day! On this day, we recognize our fellow countrymen who have fought our nation's battles for the past several hundred years, protecting our freedom and safety. We remember those who paid the ultimate price and we support those who continue to willingly sacrifice their safety for the sake of their country. Happy Memorial Day!

Share this message by adding {{subst:Memorial Day}} to a fellow American's talk page.

Thanks again T13

That Tentinator is scary I thought He/she was the TERMINATOR.:-|--OneMadScientist (talk) 18:27, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that... I personally don't like Prove-it, even collapsed it has a box that takes up a 1/4 of my screen. If I could make that go away (maybe with a toggle link from the toolbar), I would use it. Technical 13 (talk) 18:32, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey T13, it needs to be linked to Glycosides of caffeic acid (I think). I don't know how, I will learn one day (maybe). Finally I think I may have done something useful for once (albeit with A lot of help) thanks.--OneMadScientist (talk) 18:53, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

To do that you need to read up on wikilinks. Technical 13 (talk) 21:39, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Happy Memorial Day

Hi! My friend. I wish you a very happy Memorial Day ;) Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:42, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Infobox

I am working on this article but I need someone to look in the main site of the group to get more information arcanecollective.com. That's the group for which I was looking for an infobox. Hope you can help :) Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:40, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Tidying old talk pages

Hi. Re this edit, is it really worth tinkering with talk page sections that are five years old or more? The general guidance at WP:TPO is:

It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to correct typing/spelling errors, grammar, etc. It tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. The basic rule—with some specific exceptions outlined below—is that you should not edit or delete the comments of other editors without their permission.

You could argue that your changes are covered by the exceptions but, quite apart from the danger of unintended side-effects like Werieth's activating of a "helpme", they seem to me a pointless waste of time and server space. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 14:57, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

To be honest JohnCD, I'm not going to argue anything. My point was, while you were in there reverting the errors that Werieth's likely semi-automated edit caused, due to the high likelihood that any future edits to that page by a similar process would also want to unicodify the page, you should have simply made the minor adjustments similar to mine to prevent it from requiring possible other reversions for the same thing in the future. I actually did not correct any of the typos or spelling errors, grammar, etc on the talk page and I only made edits that effected template usage and unicodification attempts. That being said, I digress... Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 15:19, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Attention seeking approvals

Regarding [8], Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 March 15#Template:Iapprove clearly shows that people don't want attention seeking methods of expressing approval. Reducing the font size or changing the color doesn't do it. Will you please just express your approval like others on the same type of page? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:54, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Hex's comment on the very page says, "This new template produces a fairly unappealing green box that basically says "I like this". An "I approve" might be a good addition to Category:Image with comment templates, but it would need to look completely different. Also not sure why this has been constructed in two parts."

My opinion is that the change from:

• 

  Technical 13 (talk) gives his support at 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

to the revised, condensed, toned down version:

• Support:  Technical 13 (talk) gives his support for this section's subject at 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC).

has rendered it a completely different look and is actually less attention seeking than:

• Accepted Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
• Agree Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
•  Great! Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
• Like Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
• Muchas gracias Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
•  CheckUser is not magic pixie dust Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

or for that matter any of the other 336 Image with comment templates. It also appears that other people like this template as information on it by another editor interested in using it was requested Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge/Archive 10 by TheOriginalSoni and due to the edit that Theopolisme made to the template on May 6th, I'm inclined to believe that he may have used it as well. The nice part of the template is the fact that it automatically injects your signature and the current date/timestamp as part of the template. Anyways, I'm not going to argue with you here and now. Have a nice day! Technical 13 (talk) 13:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

FWIW, I've never used the template; I just made a minor fix upon seeing it. Theopolisme (talk) 14:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Support:  TheOriginalSoni (talk) gives their support for this template at 03:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC).

Please archive your talk page

• Hello,

As me and probably others too have told you in the past, you really need to archive your talk page. Please do not dismiss it as you have done to all the other requests. I strongly recommend you do that to avoid inconveniencing others like me who visit your page.

Thank you,

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 03:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry about inconveniencing TheOriginalSoni. As you can see from his message above, he's a pompous _____. Inconvenience him all you want. Someone please tell TheOriginalSoni that kiddies should address their elders with respect. 173.157.138.254 (talk) 1:31 am, Today (UTC−4)

Hello??

You could atleast reply please :)

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 15:41, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll get to it by the end of the week... I've got a busy week ahead of me and no time right now. Technical 13 (talk) 16:03, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Colours

Thank God you appeared! I would like the page keeps the colours of the Ethiopian flag but no so bright. This is the colour I need for the background: #d70000, the yellow is fine as you change it. rply please. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:31, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Thank you for keeping an eye on my talk page, and having my back! TheOriginalSoni (talk) 03:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, hello

Hello. You have a new message at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Action_throttled's talk page. Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:13, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Need a big favour from you

I am looking for a photograph shot by Annie Leibovitz where Ali Hewson and Bono appeared wearing EDUN in a Louis Vuitton campaign. I am working in EDUN's article and if you can find it and upload it under the same licence that the picture here also an Annie Leibovitz photograph. Can you help me or know about other user who can? Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:29, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not much of a photo finding person, and I honestly do not know who is. I'm just about to head to class for the next 5 hours (starts in 15 minutes), or I would see what I could find. I would basically just try to Google it. Also, as a note, every picture has it's own license and just because one photo of someone by someone has one license, it doesn't mean another photo of the same person by the same person will have the same license. I know it might be confusing, and it certainly is confusing, but it is very important to use the right license for each photo. :) Technical 13 (talk) 16:38, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I get it. Can you suggest anyone?? Or should I ask at The Teahouse?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:40, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I wish I could, but I can't. Sorry dear... Gotta go... Technical 13 (talk) 16:54, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Name Colour

Hi Technical 13,

You said on the Teahouse that I should change the code for my name. I tried your suggestion, but it didn't work out. The code at current is Matty.007. Would that change to Matty.007?

Thanks, Matty.007 15:08, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I have actually done this quite a bit for people... Change:

• [[User:Matty.007|<span style="color:red;">Mat</span><span style="color:blue;">ty</span><span style="color:purple;">.</span><span style="color:DodgerBlue;">007</span>]]

to:

• [[User:Matty.007|<span style="color: #F00;">Mat</span><span style="color: #00F;">ty</span><span style="color: #800080">.</span><span style="color: #4BC9FF">007</span>]]

which should give you an output that looks like:

• Matty.007

but uses code that is fully supported... You may also want to modify it a little to include a link to your talk page (and your contributions):

• [[User:Matty.007|<span style="color: #F00;">Mat</span>]][[User talk:Matty.007|<span style="color: #00F;">ty</span>]]<span style="color: #800080">.</span>[[Special:Contributions/Matty.007|<span style="color: #4BC9FF">007</span>]]

which should give you an output that looks like:

• Matty.007

Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! Matty.007 15:23, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but if I fulfill the criteria for a badge, such as this one, can I simply add them to my page?

Yours gratefully, Matty.007 15:39, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

You could, but it wouldn't be in the spirit of the badge program. Badges are intended to be given from user to another as a recognition of some accomplishment related to the Teahouse. I personally think I've had more than 4 great answers and I should have more than the one genie badge I have for improving the THQ page itself, but no-one else has recognized or taken the time to give me said badges... Someone may at some time do that, but I'm not going to award them to myself because otherwise my page would be overflowing with badges and they wouldn't mean anything. I try to be good about giving out badges for things that I think have earned them, be patient, someone should "eventually" notice... lol Technical 13 (talk) 15:44, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

But what about badges that people are unlikely to give you, such as Wikipedia:Teahouse/Badge/First? Can you put this on your page, or is it against the spitit of things?

Thanks, Matty.007 15:47, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Still against the spirit. I've actually just made a proposal to modify that badge and change the way it works, stay tuned! Once I get an answer on that proposal, I'll be going through and either awarding out the last of the badges for those that qualify or modifying the badge and you'd get one coming up on the next anniversary anyways. Technical 13 (talk) 15:56, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Great Answer

	Great Answer
	Thanks for the help! Matty.007 16:01, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at User:Theonesean/sandbox/AfC Mentoring.
Message added 18:23, 31 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TheOneSean ^{[ U | T | C ]} 18:23, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

UBX

I add some of your UBX in my UP... ;) Also I made a few ones. What do you think of them. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:36, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow!

I just want to let you know how very impressed I am with your interactions and with the quality of your responses with editors at The Teahouse. It's refreshing to read the thoroughness and care you put into your responses and follow-ups. You set an excellent example for hosts-- thanks! I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 19:54, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I do think the same as you... You are great Tech 13 Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:01, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks JS scripts

Hey Technical13. Thanks for adding your userscript to the thanks descriptor page; one thing that confuses me is what exactly it does? Insofar as it's possible to avoid seeing 'thanks' tags through preferences :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:52, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

It removes the "(thanks)" and " | thanks" links from History and Diff pages for people that do not want the links to avoid accidental mis-clicks as was requested Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#A couple technical updates. Technical 13 (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, but again, there's already a preference for that, hence the confusion at my end. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:06, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying, since I actually like the feature I'm slightly at a loss here, but what I assume is that since the preference is worded "opt out of all experimental features" or something of that sort there might be a fear that there may be another experimental feature in the near future that they don't want to miss out on and think that would exclude them where as the script is specific as it only affects "thanks" links. Like I said, I created the script for others upon request and don't even use it myself. Keep up the good work over there at MWF. :) Technical 13 (talk) 21:16, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Technical13, there may be an issue with the script. With it activated when I look at the revision history or a page and want to compare selected revisions, I cannot select any revision except the most recent as one of the ones to compare. You know when you select the left hand radio button, all the more recent revisions are then available to be selected i.e. have a right hand column of radio buttons to choose from - well that ability is lost with this script activated. Could you take a look? NtheP (talk) 17:24, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll see if I can replicate it when I get home from the beach with my daughter in a few hours. which browser are you using as I only tested originally with Firefox. Technical 13 (talk) 18:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. FF21, Windows 7. NtheP (talk) 18:17, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Cheers, seems to be ok now. NtheP (talk) 18:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at User talk:Theonesean/sandbox/AfC Mentoring.
Message added 22:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

TheOneSean ^{[ U | T | C ]} 22:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Just a note on your UP

Just a message telling you that the "Go to Bottom" link doesn't go to bottom. It just drops maybe three lines. It might just be me (Google Chrome, Windows ^(grudgingly)). Thanks, TheOneSean ^{[ U | T | C ]} 22:05, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

It is designed to scroll the TOC to the bottom of the list and not take you to the bottom of the page... I have thought about adding that feature too though... Technical 13 (talk) 22:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Snuggle is out

You might want to check Wikipedia:Snuggle/Work log and give your feedback before Snuggle goes to the public.

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 11:29, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Snuggle 1.0 release candidate ready for testing

Hi Technical 13. I've finally finished my re-write of Snuggle and pushed a release candidate up to the Wikimedia Labs cluster. If you have some time to check it out this weekend, I'd really appreciate it if you would report any confusion, bugs or missing features you come across. If we can work out any glaring problems this weekend, I'd like to welcome a larger group of users on Monday.

See http://snuggle.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org/.

Thanks for your patience. --EpochFail^{(talk • work)} 18:18, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Some questions

Hi, T13. How do you get the stuff, such as the userboxes and the your talk Table of Contents to scroll? Also, how do you get the colorful borders? Thanks. WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 14:42, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Userboxes are just templates that are transcluded on your page... All of the ones I've created are here and you just need to copy and paste the stuff in the "code" column... The code for my TOC with scrolling can be found here and you will simply need to copy and paste the whole chunk of code between the two comments marking the start and end of the TOC to the top of whatever page you want to put it on. If you don't want the go to top/bottom links (which are for the TOC and not the page), the code for that can be found on Template:TH question page and you will just have to remove the teahouse logo image from your version. I'm very busy today, and probably tomorrow, but would be happy to help you set up whatever you need on Tuesday if you haven't figured it out. Technical 13 (talk) 14:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to keep bugging you, but how do you get the 2013 talk page tab to be opened by default? I figured that part out. I'd just like help with the scrolling part of the userboxes and how to put the messages in when a person edits and you may help when it is convenient for you. Thanks. WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 15:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

LOL I've been away all day (well, I've kinda been watching but trying my hardest to take a wikibreak for the day to get a report done for class). Anyways, if you haven't already figured the second part out (putting usbx in a column with a scrollbar) then what you need to do is wrap them in a section like {{Scroll box|width=268px|height=496px|userboxes go here}} the height should be about 50 times the number of userbox you want to display +/- 5-10px... Anyways, if you still have trouble, I'll take a look at your user page tomorrow and talk page and make any minor adjustments needing to be made and you can just review the diffs to see what I did to learn how to do it... Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 00:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry I left a message on WorldTravellers Page Because I was Sure it was actually you T13, DOH. 122.109.117.224 (talk) 11:25, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Great work going the extra mile at the Teahouse, you are making a big difference - keep it up! Flat Out let's discuss it 11:16, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

New Host

Hi Technical 13-- I missed your message on the talkpage of Carlcrazysodaman and removed their host profile before I had a chance to read it. That said, given their recent speedy per vandalism, I'm inclined to believe the editor is not ready to host just yet even if they do have prior edits on an IP. Still, I appreciate your approach by giving them the benefit of the doubt, and I will try not to step on your toes like that in the future. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 16:35, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I actually reverted his first attempt when he tried to take over Bilby's profile a few days ago. I was giving a BoaD because of persistence where it was a second attempt and better than the first. No problems with me about it though... Technical 13 (talk) 16:41, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello Miss Bono

Yer drag yourself back to your work station/(Bono/U2) shrine and put your wig and dress on Technical 13 ♥ --OneMadScientist (talk) 16:35, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the drama, and only joking here↑ T13 but you must appreciate how bizarre it must have been for me when Miss Bono chimes in straight after our conversation when I say "next I'll be thinking your Miss Bono" and shes been away for days. So we cool ???OneMadScientist (talk) 17:10, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, OMS... I'm always away on weekends. I only have access to Wikipedia at work :P Miss Bono (zootalk) 17:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Miss Bono is one of my (talk page stalker) and I appreciate her questions and comments... Technical 13 (talk) 18:01, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tech13. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

New userboxes

Hey! I need some help to add categories to a few userboxes I created. can you help?? Follow this Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:07, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Abuse

You really have to be more careful in how you make claims, friend. The best place to start is always the editor's talk page, or failing that, the "A" word shouldn't be used unless there is clear evidence that some violation of WP:ADMIN has occurred. This is no different than calling someone a "sockpuppet" without presenting evidence, and is considered incivil at best. I know your intentions were good, to help someone, but you shoot them in the foot when you do it that way. It can also cause a lot of unintended drama, which is why I ignored every rule and closed it myself. Please be more careful. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 16:48, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I know that it came off strong. My defenses were slightly up as I was feeling personally attacked by the abrupt closing, which showed up as a result of my saving my previous comment and I had a WTF moment. I tried to make my post as clear as possible that it was the brevity of the closure and not the lack of consensus. Anyways, I hope that my post at the bottom of AN helped clear up my intent and that was a statement on my part and not intended to be a discussion down there. As far as the status of TheShadowCrow's topic ban goes, I want to make sure that I have a perfectly clear understanding that what your comment was that there was no opposition to said is that it is an exception to allow him to create Armenian BLPs in his sandbox. Is that correct? Technical 13 (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I think you sometimes misunderstand the processes and the effects it can have in the long run. All done in the best of faith, I have no doubt, but it is entirely possible to make a bad situation even worse by simply acting in good faith yet in bad form. I would not have done the additional posting at WP:AN, for example, and would have restricted my apology to the talk page of the editor/admin involved. Actually, the 3rd party request for the topic ban to be lifted was a mistake. History has shown that the community is usually unwilling to consider 3rd party requests and they aren't supported in policy. In this case, you were cut some extra slack but no one was interested in lifting the ban. He should have made his own request and he should have waited. His impatience is what will likely keep him from getting the ban lifted, and you did him no favors by going there.

Friend to friend, allow me to make a critical observation: You became emotionally involved in the process and it clouded your judgement. I have no way of being sure, but I'm guessing it is actually personal and it was because you initiated the process and wanted personal success in achieving your goals, even more so than your personal opinion of the topic ban. We all want to be right, to be persuasive, to accomplish our goals and perhaps measure ourselves by this. But sometimes you lose, you are on the small side of consensus, you are mistaken, or the community simply disagrees for whatever reason. It is how we deal with these events that define our character. Anyone who steps out on a limb has to be prepared to fall every now and then, and I think you are better served if you take what you did wrong here and learn from it. It is not enough to be "right" at Wikipedia, as "right" is relative. The meta areas are tricky and full of history, previous consensus, precedent and formality. These aren't obvious at first glance. I think your unfamiliarity with the procedures hurts you there and cost you some credibility. Even those us that have many years at Wikipedia (and lots of gray hair in the real world) can get it wrong sometimes, but you have to know when to admit a mistake and simply back away. ANI is an terrible, ugly place with lots of pitfalls and trolls. It is very unkind to the unprepared, the inarticulate and the impatient. It is the necessary evil in building an encyclopedia but it doesn't really make Wikipedia a better place for the reader. While there is nothing wrong with offering an opinion where you are involved, in general, I think your talents are better used helping new users and editing articles. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 13:37, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

A beer for you!

You did a good thing trying to help another user. Sorry it didn't work out, and sorry if you think I was harsh at all. My grandma, God rest her, wasn't one for sayings, but she did have one. I'm really bad at following it - but I try. I'll share it: When we listen we hold the power. When we speak we throw it away. food for thought to go with the beer to drink... Begoon talk 17:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Badgeometer formatting

Hey Technical! I'm working on the "Show off your badges" section here: Wikipedia:Teahouse/Badge. As you can see, the badgeometer goes outside the margins of the box. Could you help me to either make the badgeometer appear smaller (only on that page), or make the box wide enough to fit it? Thanks so much. Cheers :) Ocaasi ^{t | c} 19:07, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I looked at that once but don't see the point of it... It seems like faulty logic to me. Anyways, if you're still having troubles with the css getting it to work properly, I can take a look tomorrow. Technical 13 (talk) 20:10, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey. I'm not sure what kind of logic you're referring to exactly, but it's just a way to show off what you've earned in an aspirational way. I fixed the css though, but thanks for the offer! One unrelated thing, I would also request that you archive some of your talk page, as it takes quite a long time to load, especially after making an edit. I have a pretty fast connection, so it's probably even worse for some others. Thanks again for your help. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:57, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

HEY

It's a Wikifriend with SPA box! --OneMadScientist (talk) 11:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Dear Miss Bono Technical 13, if you get the time, could you please help me to change the user box (about mushrooms) in my sand box to say enjoys eating insted of (is afraid of). Thank you Miss Sir. ♥--OneMadScientist (talk) 14:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

@OMS:  Done Technical 13 (talk) 14:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Thankyou and - Gee , I was only trying to "make light" of my little miss understanding yesterday  :-( --OneMadScientist (talk) 14:22, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

@OMS Ok, I just want to ask you to stop making fun of that. Is it possible? To prevent future missunderstandings... Please Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:36, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

What's this I've take this too far now business???OneMadScientist (talk) 14:34, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

do what cha want T13OneMadScientist (talk) 14:41, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

@OMS Hey!! No need to get mad about it! I just asked you for a favour. Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

OMS has been implying for a day or two now that Miss Bono is a sockpuppet account of mine. I've requested him simply drop the stick and move on, but he seems to be incapable of doing that at this time. You can see from his comment above, that he under the possibility of sanctions has gotten nervous and and apparently offering to drop it. I will leave it to your discretion, and I would not be opposed to give him the chance to not say another word about it starting from this post as a last chance. Note that this request is frustrating for me due to the fact that less than a month ago I supported OMS's unblocking. The relevant Diffs are:

• From Miss Bono's talk page:
  • (→‎Hello T13: OMS, please stop now.)
  • (→‎Hello T13:  ????????)
  • (→‎Hello T13: Too far OMS...)
  • (→‎Hello T13: what the F??????)
• From my talk page:
  • (→‎HEY: :-) :-p })
  • (→‎HEY: :-( J/k = JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
• Unblock request on OMS's page

Thank you for taking a moment to review this and help figure out the best course of action here. Miss Bono and I just want OMS to stop with the false SPA accusations. Perhaps he could be linked to the section of the proper policy that says such accusations are serious and not to be joked about? Thanks Technical 13 (talk) 14:47, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

OMG what ever T13 your the one whos thking things too far!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by OneMadScientist (talk • contribs) 14:58, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I think that too but I asked you as a favour to stop it since you were making me nervous... Understand that, please.. Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

• This is an appropriate time for everyone to stop discussing it and wait for the response from an administrator. Technical 13 (talk) 15:04, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is "tempest in a teacup"; the second is that "SPA" usually stands for "single-purpose account", not "sockpuppet" (though that may or may not be relevant). Third thing is back to "tempest in a teacup"; it would seem that pretty much everyone is taking this far too seriously. Let's drop it like a bad habit and never mention it again, k? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

good idea! let's forget about all this missunderstanding, pleaseeee Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:08, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

OMS means it just as a joke, and T13 got serious with it. I really don't see why there is a problem at all. Lets just drop this thing, please :) [Notw - Writ Keeper IS an admin]

Also, T13, please archive. :) TheOriginalSoni (talk) 15:10, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

OMS should have not said another word after I made this request. I agree that it just needs to be dropped. That is my request. I'm not asking for a block of OMS, an official topic ban, or any other actual sanctions against him. It is just my intent that he realize the seriousness of claims of sockpuppetry and drop it like a hot potato, I don't even want an apology, just drop it. As for your archival request, it is on my agenda, and nagging at me to do it won't make it happen faster. Technical 13 (talk) 15:23, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I think I am gonna to take a WikiBreak...... I didn't want to cause so much devastation... Sorry Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:14, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Laura... It's okay dear. If you feel that you need a wikibreak, than that is probably what is best for you. I want to make sure that you know that this is only wikipedia, and there is no devastation here. This is a really trivial thing, there is no need to get too upset here. Smile. *Technical 13 gives Miss Bono a big hug and a pat on the back*

Talkback

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at User talk:Launchballer/Template:DE.
Message added 11:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

You've been summoned :) TheOriginalSoni (talk) 11:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Exam

Hey! How did your exams go?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I got it done in about 45 minutes out of the two hours and 45 minutes that was alloted... I'll find out how I did on Thursday or next Tuesday. Thanks for asking. :) Technical 13 (talk) 19:42, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

good Luck on that. let me know. What are you studying¿¿ Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Wow. What was it on, btw? (Sorry if I'm asking twice. I probably forgot) TheOriginalSoni (talk) 20:08, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Sociology 101... General Education Requirement... Technical 13 (talk) 20:16, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

No way!!!! Do you study Sociology???? I Cannot believe it!! I want to be a sociologist. That's one of my biggest dreams... I want to get into University of Havana to study that. You are my hero... Miss Bono (zootalk) 20:19, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm taking it because I have to, not because I want to... I'm studying to be a computer programmer and the university likes to require these types of courses into the requirements to get a bs as they claim to make the students more diverse but everyone knows that is a load of bs and they are really just lining their pockets... ANYWAYS... Technical 13 (talk) 20:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Owww, I studied Computer Science, but I want to be a socioligist.. Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:36, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

What about the exam??? Miss Bono ^(zootalk) 12:46, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

About My Account

I cannot request an unblock as my page was protected. Aweaseltookmyxbox (talk) 21:44, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Please contact me here via email and do not make any more posts with this Aweaseltookmyxbox account. If you really want to get unblocked and start over, you can request that from the blocked account despite your talk page being inaccessible to you at this time. Please, email me and we can discuss it.  :) Technical 13 (talk) 21:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Sorry bout the Missunderstanding T13. Well at least it helped me bump up my edit count! OneMadScientist (talk) 15:58, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you OMS. Unfortunately, it didn't improve your edit count inarticle where it counts. I am going to make a new userbox that can show an editorsencyclopedic value when I get back to a computer... Technical 13 (talk) 16:41, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I want it!! :) Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:51, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Yep, well I certainly haven't had a chance to contribute much in the way of encyclopedic value as yet and all these disagreements and misunderstandings certainly haven't helped (very bad for my real life to) don't get me wrong!. OneMadScientist (talk) 16:59, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

It will require JavaScript and a specific subpage to work... It might even require a bot... Theopolisme, How much work would be required to write a bot that can analyze all of a users edits? I'm mostly concerned we those 1M+ edit editors. Technical 13 (talk) 17:15, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Analyze all of a user's edits...in what sense? What data are you after? Theopolisme (talk) 17:30, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Talk page posts are generally considered non-encyclopedic unless they are edit requests imo. Technical 13 (talk) 18:23, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

So you just want an edit count in article and talk space/just in article space, right? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 18:28, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Au contraire...I don't think talk page edits are inherently non-encyclopedic. For example, my most recent 50 talk page edits[9] included speedy deletion nominations, discussions of issues with my bot, helping newbies, feature requests, and more. It's only when you start using Wikipedia as a social network that it becomes a problem. Theopolisme (talk) 18:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey guys 'wanna hang-out and talk some shijt' OneMadScientist (talk) 05:27, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

The raw data that matters most in evaluating a Wikipedia editor is the count of edits to article space, and the ratio of those edits to non-article edits. Of course, this is quite "raw" because some editors will add a comma in a single edit, and others may add a well-referenced paragraph that expands an article significantly. Both are useful edits, though. This is an encyclopedia. Edits to article talk pages may well end up helping improve the encyclopedia, but only if that discussion influences article content. Edits to user talk space that help acculturate other editors to our policies, guidelines and social norms may result in more productive article editing. Those of us who work at the Teahouse and other help venues may also count such work that way, and I agree. "Really useful editors" here create articles, expand articles, reference articles and also work to weed out the garbage that clutters the encyclopedia. That is why I have long been active at Articles for Deletion. Chit-chat on talk pages is useful only to the extent that it empowers and enables editors to improve the encyclopedia. I encourage those who disagree with me to chat away on Facebook, Twitter or their chosen social media platform. I post photos of beautiful flowers on Facebook every day, for the enjoyment of my friends, and I touch base with many friends, some of whom are fellow Wikipedia editors, and others of whom I have known for many decades. Let's keep social media on social media, where it belongs, and keep this an encyclopedia project. It is the World's Greatest Encyclopedia (TM), after all, and we all should be proud to improve it in any way. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:41, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Cool...'keep'n it real'OneMadScientist (talk) 06:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• I was thinking of a formula of something like this "article edits" + "talk edit requests" + "template edits" + .3("other talk edits") + .5("other namespace edits") = "reasonable encyclopedic contributions for an editor (not an admin or other specific group). What do you think? Technical 13 (talk) 11:34, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• Have you seen [10], which does something sorta similar? Theopolisme (talk) 18:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

A request

Hello friend,

I know that you are busy with exams, and my request is not at all a rush. But when you have time, I would like to accept your offer to help upgrade the coding of my signature, and also to set up regular bot archiving of my talk page. I have manually archived for several years, so I am sure that we will need to work all that out. And then, when you have time, I would like to discuss a personal matter by email. It does not directly involve Miss Bono or my mentorship agreement with her, to which I remain fully committed. Rather, it involves a more general problem with another Wikipedia matter entirely, which I am also prepared to share with her if she is interested. In closing, let me thank you for trying to be a positive influence on our little corner of Wikipedia in so many ways recently. I am grateful for your work here, and wish you well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:21, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• No problem Jim... Let's start with the easy part, your signature:
  • Current: [[User:Cullen328|'''<span style="color:green;">Cullen</span>'''<sup><span style="color:purple;">328</span></sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:blue;">''Let's discuss it''</span>]]
    • Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it
  • Revised: [[User:Cullen328|'''<span style="color: #008000;">Cullen</span>'''<sup><span style="color: #800080;">328</span></sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color: #00F;">''Let's discuss it''</span>]]
    • Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it
• Archival question... I don't use automatic archival myself as you can see. If that is what you want to do, I would be happy to help you try and pick the right bot for you for the job, there are a few options.
• Feel free to send me an email any time about anything. Technical 13 (talk) 12:30, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Sorry for poking my nose into this, but Jim ... I think I can help you with your archives. Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
    • No need to be sorry Laura, you should know by now that my (talk page stalker) are welcome and encouraged to reply on my talk page whenever. Technical 13 (talk) 15:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tech13, I already set up an archive for Cullen328 Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:14, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Congrats... You gave an awesome answer in the Teahouse!

	Great Answer Badge
	Awarded to those who have given a great answer on the Teahouse Question Forum. A good answer is one that fits in with the Teahouse expectations of proper conduct: polite, patient, simple, relies on explanations not links, and leaves a talkback notification. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
Thank you for helping User:aweaselstolemyxbox with his "problem" you beat me to it again. Thus Spake Lee Tru. 11:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

@Lee Tru.: That user actually hasn't emailed me yet. I really wish they would because I am fairly certain they could get themselves unblocked and edit the right way... Technical 13 (talk) 12:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

• @Lee Tru.: @Technical 13: The matter has already been resolved. I asked them to join the IRC help, and they talked to several people, including admins. The consensus among everybody who interacted was for his unblock/his continued usage of the new account. For now, either EnglishEfternamn will be unblocked, and/or CarringtonEnglish be allowed to continue. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Question about Barnstars

Hi Technical,

I just wanted to ask you a question, based on my experience of you and your knowledge of barnstars, is this an appropriate use of a barnstar that I can show with pride?

Thanks again, Matty.007 16:19, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

SPI

A sock puppet investigation including your account has been lodged by another editor at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Technical 13. I see you have had interaction with the editor raising the SPI before and it has got quite heated. Can I counsel you to try and remain calm and address only the issues raised, not the people involved. NtheP (talk) 17:35, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't have access to a computer for a couple hours due to being in class. I'm okay and actually find it kind of funny. I'll comment on the SPI as soon as I have moment and just hope no rash decision is made before I can. Technical 13 (talk) 17:43, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

It was baseless and has been deleted. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, that is over... Thanks for letting me know Writ Keeper, I still have another hour until class gets out and it was affecting my focus a little. Technical 13 (talk) 18:34, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Reminder

Hi Technical,

I am not sure if you noticed my message, which is two messages above this. Thanks, Matty.007 19:24, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse archive

So I see you found a fix for those of us who like to go through the archives. Not a perfect one, but one that sort of works.

But there's a BIG problem. I wasn't sent to "Today's questions". I was sent to a kind of "Main Page" that doesn't have the questions, and I didn't quite know how to get there. I used my contributions page which has a link to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions. That link needs to appear on every archive page. Since there are a hundred, I don't want to do it myself.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 20:14, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Although that main page requires only one click. But it's a matter of figuring out where to click.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 20:23, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Silly me. It doesn't take one hundred edits if it's a template. So what we need is to fix the template. I get confused very easily even after six years, so imagine newbies trying to get back.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 15:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

• Yeah, I actually plan on going through all of the pages one more time and replacing the {{Archive page navigator}} with a teahouse specific archiveHeader type thing that includes a fancy header, fancy TOC, and archive bar... Technical 13 (talk) 15:42, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Whatever you're willing to do. Sounds like a lot of work.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:17, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

First page completed! Will you do the honors?

I just finished the first page for the AfC mentoring program. I'm nowhere near finishing the whole thing, but I wanted to give you the chance to look it over, make some suggestions etc. So will you do the honors? I'm thinking of creating a navbox to put at the bottom. Thanks for your help. Stay awesome, TheOneSean ^{[ U | T | C ]} 08:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes I Think You Are Right About That Account Being A Sock of OneMadScientist

The most telling Part is this Post (See below) with an edit summary of (T13 = 0, (OMS = +1)).

I think this means that in his 'relatively' short time here he (OneMadScientist) has created +1 Article, Whereas, in his relatively very long time here the User Technical 13 has Created 0 articles.

I think this was meant to show how he (OneMadScientist) has actually contributed more to the Knowledge in this Encyclopedia than Technical 13.

That is my firmly held opinion, what do you think?.

http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/adminscore.cgi?name=Technical+13

Admin Score for User:Technical 13

• Edit count: 8014 +25
• Account age: 775 days +70
• Block count: 1 (last block expired 63 days ago) -135
• User rights: None +0
• User page: Exists +10
• Missing edit summaries (article namespace, last 2 years): 0.0% +80
• Average monthly edit count (last 12 mo.): 609 +45
• Minimum monthly edit count (last 12 mo.): 0 -45
• # of edits to Article namespace: 2474 +9
• # of edits to Wikipedia namespace: 1344 +27
• # of edits to various Talk namespaces: 2020 +20
• Non-redirect articles created: 0 -140

• Edits to admin areas (AIV/RPP/AfD): 64 -99

• Total Score: -133

Admin Score

This tool grabs pertinent information about a user and generates an overall score designed to indicate that user's readiness for adminship. The scoring has been designed such that the maximum score possible is 1000. There are several important aspects of a user's contributions that this tool definitely does not look for, including but not limited to: Whether the user is civil and polite Perceived maturity and intelligence levels of the user Whether the user has received recent user talk page warnings for vandalism, edit warring, incivility etc. User's understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines Whether any blocks received by the user were deserved

At this point, there is no threshold score over which an editor would be considered a good candidate for adminship. The scoring has been redesigned such that the maximum score possible is 1000. Even if a user scores a perfect score of 1000, he/she may not necessarily be a suitable admin candidate for other reasons.

Scores over 500 are generally regarded as good. Regardless of an editor's overall score, significantly negative scores in any category may adversely affect their ability to successfully pass an RfA.

OnHisMajesty'sService (talk) 09:32, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/adminscore.cgi?name=OneMadScientist

Admin Score for User:OneMadScientist

• Edit count: 583 -113
• Account age: 32 days -116
• Block count: 2 (last block expired 20 days ago) -160
• User rights: None +0
• User page: Exists +10
• Missing edit summaries (article namespace, last 2 years): 0.0% +80
• Average monthly edit count (last 12 mo.): 31 -30
• Minimum monthly edit count (last 12 mo.): 0 -45
• # of edits to Article namespace: 30 -40
• # of edits to Wikipedia namespace: 7 -40
• # of edits to various Talk namespaces: 428 +1
• Non-redirect articles created: 1 -105
• Edits to admin areas (AIV/RPP/AfD): 0 -115

• Total Score: -673

• Elapsed time: 0.97 seconds.

http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/adminscore.cgi?name=OnHisMajesty'sService

Admin Score for User:OnHisMajesty'sService

• Edit count: 10 -125
• Account age: 0 days -125
• Block count: 1 (last block expired 0 days ago) -150
• User rights: None +0
• User page: Exists +10
• Missing edit summaries (article namespace, last 2 years): 100.0% -80
• Average monthly edit count (last 12 mo.): 0 -45
• Minimum monthly edit count (last 12 mo.): 0 -45
• # of edits to Article namespace: 0 -40
• # of edits to Wikipedia namespace: 0 -40
• # of edits to various Talk namespaces: 9 -20
• Non-redirect articles created: 0 -140
• Edits to admin areas (AIV/RPP/AfD): 0 -115

• Total Score: -915

• Elapsed time: 1.16 seconds.

The math speaks for itself... Technical 13 (talk) 00:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Non 3PO

Hi Technical. I would like to ask for a third opinion (sort of) regarding the use of primary sources in an infobox here for revenue and employee numbers. It clearly does not qualify for an actual 3PO request. There are more than two editors involved, the topic has not been discussed at-length, and it's not as complicated an issue as is usually handled by 3PO. So I just poked around at 3PO for an editor that might be interested in chiming in.

Since the updated infobox has been contested, it is no longer a non-controversial edit and so it is not proper for me to make it with a COI. Naturally it is more difficult to settle disputes without being bold and I figured an un-involved editor with DR experience could be invaluable. CorporateM (Talk) 22:28, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

• Let me sleep on it. Too tired right now. Technical 13 (talk) 02:49, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
• Offered my opinion and made the non-questioned changes. Asked a few questions... Look forward to your replies (and the replies of others). Technical 13 (talk) 12:31, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Moving list

Hello! Last time at technical village pump you mentioned that a moving list, like a marquee element can be done. Can you please show how it is done? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:45, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

• Take a look at: Template:Wikipedia ads... I think it might be what you are looking for. Otherwise, you'll have to do it with CSS3 which still isn't supported by all browsers... Technical 13 (talk) 12:52, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Arent those ads gifs? I was thinking of moving text and not images. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 09:53, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

They are, and are the only real option on Wikipedia if you want it to work for everyone. Technical 13 (talk) 12:03, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

KW

Edits like this are actually a lot less helpful than you may realize. You aren't an admin, and if you notice, no admin has pointed him to WP:GAB or declined the unblock request. There is a lot of nuance to the situation that I feel has escaped you. Good intentions perhaps, but it came across as patronizing and a bit antagonizing. It is my opinion that highly contentious situations like this are better left to more experienced hands. Often, there are very sound reasons why doing nothing is the best choice. Dennis Brown / 2¢ / © / @ 12:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

• Dennis Brown, are you edit stalking me? Thanks. . I'm not that invested in the situation, and I really don't care that much. Using {{Admin help}} was inappropriate there, and I was just offering an explanation as to why I was deactivating the request. Also, during my block a couple months ago, I found it easier to hear those things from a fellow editor instead of an administrator. There is at very least an expectation that Admins gang up together to force the hand of the editor, and seeing that someone other than an admin thinks those things, at least for me, made me step back and realize that it might be consensus of everyone on wikipedia and not just the admins ganging up on me. Anyways, I wasn't going to post any more there unless requested to. Thanks for looking out for me D-Brown. Technical 13 (talk) 12:48, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

About your edit summary on IsAnybodyDown?

See the transcript: "The latest is the creatively named “Is Anybody Down,” the brainchild of two entrepreneurs named Craig Brittain and Chance Trahan." --Auric talk 17:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The transcript was point out to me on IRC, and unfortunately, since the two articles don't say the same thing, I consider the entire source unreliable. The article says "Bob talks to Randazza and Is Anybody Down's founder Craig Brittain." which is the source that was cited and says there is one founder and mentions nothing of a co-founder (It would have said "...Is Anybody Down's co-founder Craig Brittain." if he wasn't the only founder). The additional transcript says "The latest is the creatively named “Is Anybody Down,” the brainchild of two entrepreneurs named Craig Brittain and Chance Trahan." but does not say that he is a founder, just that he helped think it up. The only other mention claims that he "may" be the "lawyer" "David Blade". Craig Brittian himself in fact never says that Chance is a co-founder. I really do not care one way or the other and firmly believe in WP:NOTCENSORED, but I do believe that only verifiable sources should be used, and ones that conflict themselves aren't verifiable. hint Find a better source. Technical 13 (talk) 17:56, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

This article is obviously intended as a summary of the interview and as such would lack essential details. The transcript reflects the actual content of the interview. No conflict here. However, I've changed the article to reflect Trahan's assistance.--Auric talk 18:06, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Miss Bono's talk page, and my pages

Hello Technical 13,

There is a a problem with Miss Bono's talk page. A bunch of sections are collapsed into a giant "wall of text". If you could correct the problem, I would appreciate it, and I am sure that she would too. As it seems that OMS has chosen the path of trolling, vandalism and sockpuppetry. I am concerned about possible attacks on this page in the next ten hours. I am grateful for any attention you can offer, and I appreciate your help protecting my pages and hers. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Miss Bono's page is fixed. Watch out for "<nowiki>" tags. Theopolisme (talk) 04:13, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Cullen328, it would seem that Theopolisme took care of it while I was asleep. A few of us have been watching over the OMS situation and simply reverting and adding the IPs to the SPI... I have everyone involved's talk pages watched. No problems. :) Technical 13 (talk) 11:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:30, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)Cullen328 What was the problem with my page?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Help!

Please help me with templates! I am trying to make stub notices/talk page banners/whatever for WikiProject dragons and I can understand none of it! Please help!-- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 14:58, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Give me a few moments.. kind of tied up at the moment... can you come to #wikipedia-teahouse ^connect Technical 13 (talk) 15:25, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Okay, Lee, what's up? What can I help you create? Technical 13 (talk) 15:39, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I need to make a talkpage banner, a stub notice, a userbox and I would like an add and award. thank you for helping. -- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 17:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Okay, Lee, I'm going to need some examples of other ones that you want them to look like and I need to know what you want them to say... :) Technical 13 (talk) 17:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I have to go now, I'll think about it and get back to you later, thanks! Bye for now! -- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 17:25, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

About a different thing, could you comment (favorably) about my request for reviewer rights, thanks! -- Thus Spake Lee Tru. 20:12, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

not appropriate Lee. I'll look at it tomorrow though and if I have anything useful to add, will do so.... Technical 13 (talk) 02:22, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

about what we were talking about before, check out WP:PSI. Could you make something like that? Also, if you want to help, you can add your name to the list of participants at WikiProject Dragons. —Preceding undated comment added 13:10, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Userpage and talk page design

Hi there Technical 13, I am requesting the help you offered on my user page and talk page regarding the design. I am having serious issues with the organisation and clutter of my page. I personally like your userpage design, primarily due to the fact that it is really organised. But whenever you are free or if you don't mind, try to help organize my page a bit. Or just give me the code whichever is fine with you Thanks! --PrabashWhat? 01:41, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Technical_13

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		Thanks for the the help with the Wikibooks section link! Cypherquest (talk) 04:48, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for your support over at AWB. TheOneSean ^{[ U | T | C ]} 15:35, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem... Technical 13 (talk) 15:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse awards

i saw that you volunteered to help with the badge section on the bottom of the teahouse withlist, I would like to help with that if you would like, though I know almoset nothing about wiki-graphics and wiki-code.-- Lee Tru. 12:47, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Then that basically leaves "brainstorming" that you can do... Come up with ideas and add them to the wishlist. If you want to learn how to create templates (badges), then I would be happy to put together a tutorial for you. Technical 13 (talk) 12:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Could you make a tutorial for me? I would like that very much, I have always been the dark about templates.-- Lee Tru. 13:02, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Sure Lee, I'll let you know when enough is done for you to start... Will take me a few days to gather resources and links and such... Technical 13 (talk) 13:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Good, I want to earn a Teahouse badge-- Lee Tru. 13:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

If that is all you want Lee, then I suggest researching how to give a good answer or how to ask a good question (you may have already asked one as people don't give out GQ badges as much as should be done). Those are good first badges to earn... :) Technical 13 (talk) 13:27, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

That is not all I want to do (I would still like to learn edit templates) and I did give a good answer, a new editor asked if there was a place to talk about changes to articles (really!) and I told him how, and I hellped Aleesha C with her moving articles in a sandbox question.-- Lee Tru. 13:35, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I've seemed to have gotten a ratio of 1 badge for every 4 great answers (in my opinion), so yours may be coming soon.. Keep answering... :) Technical 13 (talk) 13:42, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I where would I reasearch how to give/ask a great question? Oh, by the way, there are actualy more great question badges than grate answer badges. -- Lee Tru. 15:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

response

i left a message for you where you asked something. can you help me with my userbox?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:33, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Email

Tech, I am going to send you an email right now, please let me know if you get it, I am trying to figure out what's going on with the server. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:11, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Did you get it??? Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:26, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I did.. Sorry, was away from computer having lunch. :) Technical 13 (talk) 18:38, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Try to email back and see if it returns to you? Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:39, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

PING! Technical 13 (talk) 18:56, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

What does it mean??? Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

See PING (Ping (networking utility) in particular).  :) Technical 13 (talk) 19:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

So it returned to you?? Mmmm Miss Bono (zootalk) 19:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Technical 13. You have new messages at Cullen328's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

No confirmation

$( 'a.mw-thanks-thank-link' ).click( function( e ) {
	e.preventDefault();
	sendThanks( $( this ) );
} );

Kaldari (talk) 19:18, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, actually that won't work since sendThanks is inside a closure. Lemme get back to you on this... Kaldari (talk) 19:21, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Kaldari. If you are not too too busy, could you take a look at User:Technical 13/SandBox/NoThanks.js and see if you can figure out why when I have the script do the .replace to remove the "-⊗-" characters and containers it seems to disable the selecting of the radio buttons for diffs? If you're too busy, maybe I can get Writ Keeper help me figure that out (echo-ping-hint)? Technical 13 (talk) 19:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Not sure off the top of my head, but why are you iterating over all those lis? There are a lot of lis on the page, and you're iterating to many needlessly. Why not just do:

if (wgAction == 'history') 
{
    $('a.mw-thanks-thank-link').replaceWith('-⊗-');
}

Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I think this should work for bypassing the confirmation:

var thankedHistory = {
	maxHistory: 100,
	load: function() {
		var cookie = $.cookie( 'thanks-thanked' );
		if ( cookie === null ) {
			return [];
		}
		return unescape( cookie ).split( ',' );
	},
	push: function( $thankLink ) {
		var saved = this.load();
		saved.push( $thankLink.attr( 'data-revision-id' ) );
		if ( saved.length > this.maxHistory ) { // prevent forever growing
			saved = saved.slice( saved.length - this.maxHistory );
		}
		$.cookie( 'thanks-thanked', escape( saved.join( ',' ) ) );
	}
};

$( 'a.mw-thanks-thank-link' ).click( function( e ) {
	var $thankLink = $( this ), source;
	e.preventDefault();
	if ( mw.config.get( 'wgAction' ) === 'history' ) {
		source = 'history';
	} else {
		source = 'diff';
	}
	( new mw.Api ).get( {
		'action' : 'thank',
		'rev' : $thankLink.attr( 'data-revision-id' ),
		'source' : source,
		'token' : mw.user.tokens.values.editToken
	} )
	.done( function( data ) {
		$thankLink.before( mw.message( 'thanks-thanked', mw.user ).escaped() );
		$thankLink.remove();
		thankedHistory.push( $thankLink );
	} )
	.fail( function( errorCode, details ) {
		// TODO: use something besides alert for the error messages
		switch( errorCode ) {
			case 'invalidrevision':
				alert( mw.msg( 'thanks-error-invalidrevision' ) );
				break;
			case 'ratelimited':
				alert( mw.msg( 'thanks-error-ratelimited' ) );
				break;
			default:
				alert( mw.msg( 'thanks-error-undefined' ) );
		}
	} );
} );

Kaldari (talk) 20:31, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

More Teahouse stuff

T13, how do I sign up to be maitre'd at the Teahouse, I tried to use the calender to do so, and it was too confusing to figure out. Thanks! -- Lee Tru. 20:19, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the note

Hahaha. Thank you for the message on my talk page. I was quick to call it vandalism, but then noticed something did not fit after looking at your userpage. I hope all is going well for you with the exams at college. Best wishes.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 14:48, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Greetings and... thanks... and...

Greetings Technical 13. Thanks for your note (and thanks for your AGF on that sockpuppet issue). My user/talkpages have been vandalised several times - used to keep count, but gave up 'cos it was too time-consuming -, with Technoprat being the most frequently repeated display of "original" wit. And vandals have even created new pages to insult me, but as far as I know, nobody has yet tried to implicate me in sockpuppeting, so I'm out of my depth on this one. Have no idea as to how to go about creating the kind of banner you propose (I'm sort of reluctant to use userboxes, so would rather have something discreet (UK version). I suppose there must be templates out there, but if you really think it necessary, I'd be grateful for some pointers. Would this be something like the "User committed identity" I've seen around? Cheers, --Technopat (talk) 16:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC) (the One-and-Only) --Technopat (talk) 16:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Are you here because my username resembles that of Techoquat, Technoprat, Technocrat, or any of the other Techno... names? If so, please →

I'm "only" Technopat and none of the others. To be filled in... You may be looking for Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Technoquat... To be filled in...

Looks good. And the filling? --Technopat (talk) 17:04, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Have just created User:Technopat/sandbox where I can mull it over a bit more before committing myself. You're welcome to tweak it if you see fit. Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 17:28, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

WP:Snuggle is live at snuggle.grouplens.org

The snuggle logo

Snuggle, the newcomer socialization tool I've been building, is finally ready for general use. All you need to do to get started is point your browser to https://snuggle.grouplens.org. Let me know if you run into any trouble. I'll be watching WT:Snuggle. Or you can also just contact me directly. Thanks for your patience.

See also:

• Documentation
• Bug tracker
• Open source code repository
• My work log describing the last few months of work

--EpochFail^{(talk • work)} 19:52, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Publishers Clearing House

Hi Technical. I went ahead and started an RFC on the issue of which source to use for revenue in the Infobox here. Bilbo agrees with the employee count, so this is the last dispute-area for the infobox. CorporateM (Talk) 02:02, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

re: AFCH

What's the status on patching the O is null error? A fix would greatly help me. Thanks in advance, Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 04:27, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I was looking at it and although a catch to be added to skip the function or output an error if the options array that feeds the "o" variable is undefined or null, I was thinking it might be better to look a little further up and see why the options array is getting there empty and maybe put the fix there so it isn't empty or the function isn't called if not needed. Then, mabdul came on to IRC as I was looking through the beta code some more and I starting asking him what he knew about it and he said that he had a fix for that already. I decided it was a good time for me to go to bed at that point. I'm going to be pretty busy today with weekly chores like laundry and shopping and tomorrow is father's day so I probably won't be on much, but I'll take another look at it as soon as I can. Technical 13 (talk) 12:20, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

New badge

Hey there. Yeah, I'm not fond of the section text. I think they should all (section text for all badges) be similar and more general. I wasn't even all that into the badge text that I wrote and was going to show it to Ocaasi and Siko and let them have a go at it. Give us a little time to catch up :) heather walls (talk) 16:08, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

My UBX section

Hey, thank you very much, it is great. But the image "My Userboxes" it shows at the bottom of the userboxes, how can I move it to the top as a header?? Miss Bono  (zootalk) 15:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Still working on that dear. :) Technical 13 (talk) 15:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'll be working on waking up the WikiProject u2 for the Spanish Wikipedia. ;) Miss Bono  (zootalk) 15:42, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Miss Bono, it should be all fixed up now dear. Technical 13 (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, again. Thaaaanx!!! You are the best Miss Bono  (zootalk) 16:07, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

A Few Things

I do not want to appear pushy, but I asked you tell me where I could reaserch how to ask a great question, and Hoe I could sign up to be Teahouse Maître d. And you said that you could teach me to edit templates. If you were on a Wiki-break and did not get my first requests, sorry for this post, but I thought that the other post would have been buried by now. thanks! -- Lee Tru. 12:51, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm real busy in real life... I've started piecing together the "Template writing academy", but I'm going to need a little patiences... The other two questions would be great to ask in the teahouse and WP:BADGE I thought had a list of requirements for each badges. Technical 13 (talk) 13:01, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Sure, sorry for seaming pushy.-- Lee Tru. 13:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Not at all, and don't lose any sleep over it. I just left you another note on Nerdfighter's page. I might add to what I said there that there is a more detailed description of the requirements of each badge if you follow the link to the badge's documentation from the badge you are unsure about. Happy editing. Technical 13 (talk) 13:20, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for offering to help, Could you give me a concreet example of a "great" question/answer? -- Lee Tru. 13:27, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Need help with user page

can you help??? Miss Bono  (zootalk) 15:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

• Maybe. What do you need? FWIW, I'm starting class in about 20 minutes. So, it may have to wait until I'm out of class (you'll have to be patient ). Technical 13 (talk) 16:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking as my user page is getting long, adding some panels like in WikiProject U2. I'll be patient Miss Bono  (zootalk) 16:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

This sounds like I'm going to have to do some research and that will take some time... I'll look into tonight (remind me if you don't see me working on it in about 18 hours from now as it means I might have forgotten). Technical 13 (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Unproductive tangent about unicorns.

Also, FWIW, Hulkster1 would appear to be trolling you and if it was me, I would suggest to him to check out the WP:UPDC. Would you like Jim, TOS, or I to work with him for you or would you like to do it yourself? Technical 13 (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

What's FWIW?? What does a troll do?? Miss Bono  (zootalk) 16:59, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

FWIW = "For What It's Worth" and...

Trolling is any deliberate and intentional attempt to disrupt the usability of Wikipedia for its editors, administrators, developers, and other people who work to create content for and help run Wikipedia. Trolling is a violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces and is often done to inflame or invite conflict. It necessarily involves a value judgment made by one user about the value of another's contribution. (Because of this it is considered not to be any more useful than the judgment 'I don't agree with you' by many users, who prefer to focus on behaviors instead of on presumed intent). Trolls are not to be confused with large warty monsters thought to dwell under bridges, in caves, etc.

Trolling is not necessarily the same as vandalism (although vandalism may be used by trolls). A vandal may just enjoy defacing a webpage, insulting random users, or spreading some personal views in an inappropriate way. A troll deliberately exploits tendencies of human nature or of an online community to upset people.

There are many types of disruptive users that are not trolls. Reversion warriors, POV warriors, cranks, impolite users, and vocal critics of Wikipedia structures and processes are not necessarily trolls.

The basic mindset of a troll is that they are far more interested in how others react to their edits than in the usual concerns of Wikipedians: accuracy, veracity, comprehensiveness, and overall quality. If a troll gets no response to their spurious edits, then they can hardly be considered a troll at all.

I don't have access to meta Miss Bono  (zootalk) 17:03, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

FWIW is internet shorthand meaning "for what it's worth". Trolling is provacative online misbehavior intended to produce an emotional reaction. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 1:11 pm, Today (UTC−4)

Yeah, I would like Jim, TOS, or you to work with him. Actually I was trying to be nice with him but he was distracting me from my work in Ali Hewson. he was saying random things about tacos and some actor I don't even know. Miss Bono  (zootalk) 17:17, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Okay, unless Jim or TOS has time and wants it, send him to me. This is why I've made this section collapsed... ;) Technical 13 (talk) 17:30, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I hope they both Jim or TOS see this discussion Miss Bono  (zootalk) 17:54, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Do you remember about my user page?? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miss Bono (talk • contribs)

Of course I do. Panels won't shorten your page. Collapsible sections and scrollable sections will... What sections to you want to shrink and in what manner? Do you want full page width sections or do you want to tile them? Technical 13 (talk) 13:19, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I would like to tile them. I would like two section one besides the other. I dont know if you understand what I am saying Miss Bono ^(zootalk) 13:36, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I know what you are saying. :) Fill in this table with what you want it to look like:

logo	WikiMood
comment
tabs" link toolbar to other pages in your userspace
userboxes
Articles I've Created	quote
MyFavouriteU2Pictures

adjust the above table. Technical 13 (talk) 14:00, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Hehe, sorry but I don't know which what I should fill the table. You can delete the emoticons Miss Bono ^(zootalk) 14:08, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I think it is great as you set it up Miss Bono ^(zootalk) 14:19, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done per the table above. Technical 13 (talk) 14:34, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

thank you so much Don. ;) Miss Bono ^(zootalk) 14:50, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Javascript IRC followup

• Hey! Following up our rather short talk on IRC... Would it be possible to create a little bit of javascript to select and show the correct template from Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection to paste to WP:RFPP after protecting a page. This would hopefully be similar to the box you get once renaming a user which can be see at File:Rename_User_Success,_English_Wikipedia.png. ! ·addshore· ^{talk to me!} 23:26, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Good morning Addshore. I'd never noticed before, but the MediaWiki software doesn't give any confirmation that a page has been protected or that there was any change in the protection level for a page... Very interesting...

From what I can tell, unprotected pages have an li#ca-protect and when the page is protected that changes to li#ca-unprotect.

All pages also seem to have a couple of mw.config variables... "wgRestrictionEdit":[] and "wgRestrictionMove":[] What it doesn't seem to offer on the page itself is when the protection expires.

I can do an API call for the protection type, level, and expiry and also if the protection templates already exist on the page with "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&pageids=" + wgArticleId + "&prop=info|templates&inprop=protection&tltemplates=Template:Semiprotect|Template:Sprotected|Template:Sprotect|Template:Semiprotected|Template:Sprot|Template:Pp-semi-protected|Template:Pp-semi|Template:Pp-semiprotected|Template:Pp-semi-protect|Template:Pp-semi-protection|Template:Pp-semi-prot|Template:Pp-full|Template:Pp-protect|Template:Pp-protected|Template:Pp-move-indef|Template:Protected_image"

I'm just taking some notes right now... I'll start working on some actual code for your request by the end of the day I hope. Technical 13 (talk) 13:21, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Lovely :) ·addshore· ^{talk to me!} 13:55, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

• Second one I mentioned today, the ability to archive sections with a single click and the ability to bring back sections from archives with a single click! :) ·addshore· ^{talk to me!} 23:44, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Any updates? :) ·addshore· ^{talk to me!} 08:59, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Great help

That was great help. I'll thank at Teahouse soon. You are welcome to kitchen of WikiProject India and see if you want any dish. I can give all thesse at this moment. Codes are being updated, please see the first of non-veg food sections. And see if you find any error, otherwise I have to update all codes once again. --Tito☸Dutta 17:21, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Anne's Afc project

Dear Technical 13:

Thanks for offering to help me out, but I see that you have been getting involved with a lot of projects lately. If you are too busy to do the testing on my AfcBox project, could you please make a posting to that effect on the VPT? No one else will take it on if they think you are doing it. Thanks —Anne Delong (talk) 19:18, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Thanks for teaching me how to not use outdated colour wikicode just as i was getting used to it =D. Have a coffee on me! Thanks again ツ Jenova20 (email) 21:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

• ehh.. Don't mention it.  ;) Technical 13 (talk) 23:14, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Lua team

Hi Technical 13. :) I'm interested in hearing more about the Lua team you mentioned in this post. I'm not really sure how your team idea would work, though - what did you have in mind? Also, we already have an informal "team" of Lua-types that watch Wikipedia:Lua requests if you have any Lua-related questions or reports. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 09:12, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello Mr. Stradivarius! What I was thinking is that since there are going to be multiple components to this project (article wizard, afc submission templates, helper tools, etc.) that the more people I could get to work on it, splitting it out into sections/modules, then there is a possibility to get it done in a few months instead of a year if I had to do it myself. If a couple people got stuck on the module they were working on, they could trade and hopefully that would be helpful. I'm thinking this project will have wiki-templates, lua modules, and "maybe" some JavaScript (trying to reduce this component from what it is now actually). I'm glad you're interested in being interested! :) Technical 13 (talk) 11:43, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, now I'm interested in general, rather than just being interested in being interested. ;) I suggest you float this idea at VPT (if you haven't already, I'm not a regular watcher there) and at WP:Lua requests, and see if you can get more people interested. Before that though, it might be a good idea to specify exactly what you're interested in doing - what's the final goal you hope to achieve from all this revamping of code? Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 12:34, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Wallabies and Islands

Thanks for sorting that out - a good job done well. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:03, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

O is still null

Finally fixed the error with my changes...to discover that O is still null. --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 15:23, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Exams

Hi Technical,

I was just wondering when your exams would be over, so I know when you will get back round to my guestbook...

Thanks, Matty.007 19:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

P.S. Good luck in them!

The NRHP template

Just a reminder of our convo about the NRHP template....fixing it so that you don't have to edit out all the 'blank' parameters or read the code of the 'parent' infobox in order to get the embedding to work right. It's not something that's a big issue for me 'personally', but I've seen new peeps be confused as hell by it.

Thanks. :) Revent (talk) 03:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Need help

Hey, Don, can you help me with my userpage. I was thinking about turning it into a more serious page. A design like this. Not exaclty the same, but pretty much. Can you help me periodically? I will open a sandbox for it User:Miss Bono/UserPage. please reply at my talk page. Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 13:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	Thanks for helping me on the IRC channel! Matty.007 19:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Help please?

The 3rd section of my userbox isn't working? Can you figure out why? I can't. I plan to have four or five UBX sections, but the thing keeps messing up. WorldTraveller101^BreaksFixes 20:30, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are talking about WorldTraveller101. Link perhaps? Technical 13 (talk) 21:20, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Care to Enlighten me?

Well that's just nice, banned on IRC, I completely understand why now so no need to explain why, but what concerns me is why nobody cared to tell me to stop and the fact that my I.P hasn't been updated to the ban list :P. Well its the IRC so meh I could live without it. But care to enlighten me as to why I got banned from there without notice? Prabash.Akmeemana 22:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Just a suggestion, but such enlightenment might be best kept to email, unless it's carefully worded and/or uncontroversial.

(I don't know what the reason is, because I haven't looked.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:40, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

It's most likely everyone using webchat got banned due to Complicated Circumstances(tm). And are now unbanned. So nothing to do with PBASH607 at all, except in collateral damage. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:44, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok, cause I was messing around with the HelpMebot and then suddenly I get this ban notice by a user that wasn't even on #Wikipedia-en-helpers so Demiurge1000 I guess my block record hasn't started yet :) Prabash.Akmeemana 22:48, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

User

Are you mad about my friend's incident the other day? :'( Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 12:23, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Huh? Mad about what? I'm confused? I'm not mad about anything, just feeling absent minded at the moment. Technical 13 (talk) 12:29, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Umm, thank God!! Technical 13. I need haelp here User:Miss Bono/UserPage.... Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 13:25, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Troubles on commons

Hi T13! Thank you for offering help with that on my talk page >___< I've honestly been trying my best to not get in trouble when uploading at commons. Errrm those messages... I'm supposed to answer them? I only spoke to the user about the last message because that was the only one that was wrongly tagged because of a bug from Cropbot. Well, I think I've learnt from enough mistakes to not make them anymore in the future .___. But I'm scared of being blocked because those warning messages are only for a fraction of the images I upload. Is there anyway to start on a clean slate or redeem myself? ⊾maine12329⊿ talks✿wiki 00:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Maine12329, wikimedia commons is for free images only, uploading non free images to wikimedia commons is bound to get deleted because it violates the copyright laws. Prabash.Akmeemana 00:32, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Prabash.. I know that. I always look on flickr for the correct sharealike licensing, which is allowed, and have been running into trouble often because some of these images are wrongly licensed. ⊾maine12329⊿ talks✿wiki 03:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Hm sounds fair, but you don't have to get worried about getting blocked! yeah licensing does matter, just take more care while uploading pictures, take a close look at the fair use rationale and then, once you are aware and you think its safe to upload, Go for it! Prabash.Akmeemana 03:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Tip

When considering a Flickr image, look at the uploader's photostream. See if the same camera was used a lot. See if the quality and styles match. Err on the side of caution. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you all for your help! ⊾maine12329⊿ talks✿wiki 05:04, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

• Maine12329, free licensed images are always good, and you probably don't have to worry about being blocked for good faith uploads of images with licenses that seem legit. Just be wary of the ones that "just don't quite look right". I see that a couple of your uploads are tagged as orphans, be careful to only upload images that will be used in article space, or they'll end up deleted as unused. Keep up the good work. Also, as a sidenote since it is a pet peeve of mine, your signature is using deprecated HTML3.2 elements that should be fixed. [[User:Maine12329|<span style="color:#FA8072;">⊾maine12329⊿</span>]] [[User talk:Maine12329|<span style="color:#181;">talks</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Maine12329|<span style="color:#E70E00; font-size:x-large">✿</span><span style="color:#818;">wiki</span>]] should fix it for you. Technical 13 (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Ooh. Thank you and fixed the signature. ⊾maine12329⊿ talks✿wiki 01:31, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

TheShadowCrow TB discussion 2

Starting a new section so we don't have to go to the middle of the page. I am planning on giving one last appeal tomarrow or the next day. I think I finally know what needs to be said. If I do, will you support me? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 02:43, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

• Dennis Brown, what do you think of this? I'm thinking it might still be a little too soon. Technical 13 (talk) 12:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I've been heavily involved with this in the past, receiving the blunt end of the stick on a number of occasions. I'm not confident I can be completely objective, which is why I have recused myself from the situation. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 12:29, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Thank you for your time Dennis Brown. TheShadowCrow, yes, I'll make a note that I support lifting the ban but that is it. I'm not going to get involved in another lengthy AN/I discussion at this time. My girlfriend is going in for surgery in a couple days and my daughter is ill, so I just do not have the mental capacity to offer much more at this time. Good luck. Technical 13 (talk) 12:53, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
      • I'm really sorry to hear about your personal problems. Making a support comment is all I wanted. I'll link the section here when I do the appeal. Best wishes to your family. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2013 (UTC)